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A Second Mario Thing: free alex

this is the place where lps are being talked about. it's important to talk about games being played on the internet.
CM30
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Re: A Second Mario Thing: fuck alex

Post by CM30 »

yogui wrote:
raocow wrote:Well, for what it's worth, this is the package that I prepared for Ryuu

a2mt Complete Works

It includes the big map and its levels, the fishmarket, the earlier fishmarket, and all the individual roms and whatnots I had to use through the game. It also includes 'instructions' on when to play the levels in the fishmarket/dedicated rom and whatnot (other than when a level doesn't actually, like, work)

I'm not sure if anyone actually wants this, but, well, here it is.
Nice.
This link should be on the first page, to anyone else crazy enough to play this.

Also since this is an abandonned project and the let's play is finished, I wanted to ask : is it possible for the people who made some of the game ASM, mostly the parrot coins and the chest system, to make the resources available for everyone? Because those were really great, and it will be a shame if it stay exclusive to an unfinished project.
Can't you get all the ASM and music and stuff from the base rom? It's linked in one of the A2MT threads in the collab forum, and contains absolutely everything in a neat little organised zip file.

Heck, here's everything I could find from the base rom:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/672 ... ources.zip

I assume nothing there is too difficult to insert into a new ROM.
MrDeePay
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Re: A Second Mario Thing: free alex

Post by MrDeePay »

It's called common courtesy to wait for an official release rather than pulling it from an then-in-progress work. Though if the resource you're looking for came from a commercial game, then rip rip rip.
CM30
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Re: A Second Mario Thing: free alex

Post by CM30 »

MrDeePay wrote:It's called common courtesy to wait for an official release rather than pulling it from an then-in-progress work. Though if the resource you're looking for came from a commercial game, then rip rip rip.
It's not exactly in progress, is it? Or particularly useful to A2MT any more?

Besides, at least half the resources did come from (or get copied from) a commercial game. I can definitely say quite a bit of the music did.
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AUS
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Re: A Second Mario Thing: free alex

Post by AUS »

MrDeePay wrote:It's called common courtesy to wait for an official release rather than pulling it from an then-in-progress work. Though if the resource you're looking for came from a commercial game, then rip rip rip.
So we work on the honor system... but only when it's one of us. Ah. That's dumb.
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Doctor Shemp
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Re: A Second Mario Thing: free alex

Post by Doctor Shemp »

Surely it's more immoral to steal from something someone has put up for sale - meaning they intend that you should contribute before you can enjoy it - than from something someone has put out for free with the spirit of sharing. Unless you've bought the game in question and you believe that your contribution should let you do whatever you want with it, I suppose. Or again, unless you believe that the very act of selling something is immoral, or that keeping things proprietary is immoral, or both.
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Re: A Second Mario Thing: free alex

Post by HuFlungDu »

Doctor Shemp wrote:Surely it's more immoral to steal from something someone has put up for sale - meaning they intend that you should contribute before you can enjoy it - than from something someone has put out for free with the spirit of sharing. Unless you've bought the game in question and you believe that your contribution should let you do whatever you want with it, I suppose. Or again, unless you believe that the very act of selling something is immoral, or that keeping things proprietary is immoral, or both.
No morality involved, it's courtesy, and courtesy is only extended to people who will know about it.
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sedron
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Re: A Second Mario Thing: free alex

Post by sedron »

HuFlungDu wrote:
Doctor Shemp wrote:Surely it's more immoral to steal from something someone has put up for sale - meaning they intend that you should contribute before you can enjoy it - than from something someone has put out for free with the spirit of sharing. Unless you've bought the game in question and you believe that your contribution should let you do whatever you want with it, I suppose. Or again, unless you believe that the very act of selling something is immoral, or that keeping things proprietary is immoral, or both.
No morality involved, it's courtesy, and courtesy is only extended to people who will know about it.
You think commercial game developers don't know about people stealing their stuff?
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MrDeePay
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Re: A Second Mario Thing: free alex

Post by MrDeePay »

CM30 wrote:It's not exactly in progress, is it? Or particularly useful to A2MT any more?
I said "then-in-progress." Note the "then" that acknowledges the state of the hack back then- before the plug was pulled.

Look closer next time.
Besides, at least half the resources did come from (or get copied from) a commercial game. I can definitely say quite a bit of the music did.
Music can be considered a fanmade remix of the original.
AUS wrote:So we work on the honor system... but only when it's one of us. Ah. That's dumb.
Elaborate.
Doctor Shemp wrote:Surely it's more immoral to steal from something someone has put up for sale - meaning they intend that you should contribute before you can enjoy it - than from something someone has put out for free with the spirit of sharing. ... Or again, unless you believe that the very act of selling something is immoral, or that keeping things proprietary is immoral, or both.
sedron wrote:You think commercial game developers don't know about people stealing their stuff?
Developers and publishers usually won't care as long as you don't try to make money off their work or at least you yank the "essence" (game engine). Nothing much about that is "immoral", if anything at all.
Unless you've bought the game in question and you believe that your contribution should let you do whatever you want with it, I suppose.
This isn't true at all.
HuFlungDu
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Re: A Second Mario Thing: free alex

Post by HuFlungDu »

sedron wrote:You think commercial game developers don't know about people stealing their stuff?
I think that commercial game developers don't know about us, specifically, "stealing" their stuff. We don't matter.
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Shard1697
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Re: A Second Mario Thing: free alex

Post by Shard1697 »

Whether someone knows you did it doesn't really change the morality of it at all, it just means you don't get in trouble.
If you make the decision to use creative works(which cost money) as a base/part of your own work, and consider that ethically sound... there's not really any good reason to not consider it also alright to use works which are free.

It's certainly not an obvious issue and I'm not trying to say you should feel X way about it, but I think it's worth acknowledging that the use of someone's commercial game to make your own via hacking is in a pretty unestablished moral grey area, or at the very least is if you think there's something wrong with using non-commercial works in the same way. There's a logical disconnect.

By the "commercial game hacks moral, non-commercial game hacks not" logic, if an indie game maker releases a game for free in order to gain a fanbase with the intent of producing non-free games or addons to the first game later on to make a profit, is it morally just to make hacks of that game because there is commercial intent behind it? If a game is released for free, but only after being funded by a kickstarter/other donation drive, are hacks of it still morally unsound?
HuFlungDu
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Re: A Second Mario Thing: free alex

Post by HuFlungDu »

You're confusing terms. Neither of those things are immoral, there is a courtesy to be extended toward people in your community that MDP mentioned, but courtesy has exactly zero to do with morality. Courtesy is what you do to keep people who know you exist from disliking you, it's not something you do because it is morally "right".

Edit: Not trying to speak for MDP, I don't know exactly what he was saying (due to nit being him), but this I'd what I have been saying.
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sedron
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Re: A Second Mario Thing: free alex

Post by sedron »

HuFlungDu wrote:
sedron wrote:You think commercial game developers don't know about people stealing their stuff?
I think that commercial game developers don't know about us, specifically, "stealing" their stuff. We don't matter.
There's no reason to put quotes around the word. If someone has a product for sale and you take some or all of it without permission (usually by right of purchase,) it's theft. If you wanna justify it in any number of ways, that's up to you.

If I wanted to justify not ripping resources from an in-progress non-commercial game I'd say it's to ensure that game is seen as a standalone work before anything else is done with the parts. So long as you aren't trying to profit off of the work of anyone else, however, it's probably fine. The whole subject is full of grey areas that I'm not particularly worried about, so whatever you decide is what you decide, so long as sound logic is used.
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HuFlungDu
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Re: A Second Mario Thing: free alex

Post by HuFlungDu »

sedron wrote:There's no reason to put quotes around the word. If someone has a product for sale and you take some or all of it without permission (usually by right of purchase,) it's theft. If you wanna justify it in any number of ways, that's up to you.
There is, due to it not being theft. You took nothing, you created a copy. Even the supreme court agrees with me.
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Re: A Second Mario Thing: free alex

Post by Doctor Shemp »

It's still an infringement of copyright, which is against the law, plus nearly all terms of service agreements forbid dissassembling the program, so you're in breach of contract too.
HuFlungDu
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Re: A Second Mario Thing: free alex

Post by HuFlungDu »

I'm... Unsure what your point is? If you are arguing that it's immoral then leave, you are supporting immoral things. Otherwise I have no idea.
Doctor Shemp
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Re: A Second Mario Thing: free alex

Post by Doctor Shemp »

I'm saying your distinction that taking things from commercially released things without asking is okay but taking things from free modifications of someone else's content is not okay is not really based on any logic at all.
HuFlungDu
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Re: A Second Mario Thing: free alex

Post by HuFlungDu »

I've already explained, you are arguing against things I never said, in fact I said the exact thing you are saying.

I literally said that both things are morally fine. Here's a quote:
me, 5ish posts ago wrote:Neither of those things are immoral
I made no distinction on that grounds. Obviously you don't know me, but I have made a number of people angry for holding specifically that view. I also said that there is such a thing as courtesy which has nothing to do with morality, it is simply a way of lubricating your relationships with the other people in the community you are in.

I really don't know how many more ways I can put this...
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Re: A Second Mario Thing: free alex

Post by Doctor Shemp »

Sorry, I appear to have gotten your opinion and MDP's opinion muddled in my head. I apologise for the association.
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Re: A Second Mario Thing: free alex

Post by MrDeePay »

Doctor Shemp wrote:I'm saying your distinction that taking things from commercially released things without asking is okay but taking things from free modifications of someone else's content is not okay is not really based on any logic at all.
Community members tend to be closer with another than they are with the publishers/devs themselves. The devs/publishers tend to catch a lot of flak (bad publicity) if they try to meddle with a fan project if it's not positive involvement. It's better for community PR to wait for a release than to just grab it and run, like a handful of people would like to do.

Though I wouldn't be surprised if you people took issue (even subconsciously) with this yet again with this more because of who said it and less of what they said.
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Re: A Second Mario Thing: free alex

Post by AUS »

Eh, fuck community PR. TAKE IT AND RUN, I SAY!
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swirlybomb
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Re: A Second Mario Thing: free alex

Post by swirlybomb »

OH MAN

I am a dumb was absent from Talkhaus for the entirety of this playthrough and missed the opportunity to commentate on it along the way. Good times! A 2econd Mario Thing: A Tale Of Hubris is the final official title, right?

also like there's no point demonizing people for stuff they made 3-4 years ago???


buhhhhhhhhhh I suppose commentating on anything besides the endgame would be silly at this point. Franky's 'final level' thing seemed pretty great; challenging without being unfair or TOO long (though some sections were perhaps pushing the threshold a tad, but they still seemed doable), and although I originally said that the "world 8 theme+slow part" portion of the song should stay in (way back in the day), I think I do have to agree that the final version of the song flows much better and is better suited to the 'awesome final level' vibe thing.

Clearly when AnonymousBloodlust said his level "can be beaten on the player's first attempt" he was referring to the fact that it's impossible to actually die, thus you'll always be on your first attempt. It's so obvious guys!!!!!
but yeah it's impossible to beat it without trial and error but no one needs me to tell them that
Nonetheless it was rather impressive, at least technologically. Pretty cool.
anonymousbl00dlust wrote:
Voltgloss wrote:The bird song made it all worthwhile.
I got such weird looks while I was recording that, haha.
Wait, was that you 'singing' it? I assumed that was a recording of raocow from the end of a previous LP or something?


Had I been active near the beginning I would've done a short blurb regarding Ye Olde Spookhouse, but I'm pretty sure it's in the "decent but unmemorable" zone where nobody cares. Oh well! I would like to think it's at least 'solid' for being a "very first level ever," though it could still use improvements, of course. Thanks to Cup for showing me the ropes of Mario World hacking. I had made a graphic for the chest contents, but I guess it didn't get inserted:
themoose.png
themoose.png (443 Bytes) Viewed 5419 times
Also in the "stuff I did" category was the intro, which Diortem did the ASM for (to make Demo invincible) and walked me through the insertion process; s/he had also suggested taking the starting screen of So Close, Yet So... and copying it to the intro to form a 'Book Ends' kind of thing (where that land configuration (and the false goal tapes) appears in the intro level and then is seen again at the first level of the last world). The core idea was raocow's, though.
Somewhere along the way, raocow mentioned he managed to die in said intro level? I wonder how that happened, since I tried to make it not-possible, of course (though I have my doubts that he would remember how).


Okay I rambled too much. Kinda feels like a shame that this LP got drawn out so much, but I suppose that gave A2MBXT that much more QA time! Looking forward to seeing how that turns out.
anonymousbl00dlust wrote:All the obstacles in my level can be beaten on the players first attempt without any 'future predicting'.
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Doctor Shemp
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Re: A Second Mario Thing: free alex

Post by Doctor Shemp »

Did you have any text to go along with the moose head?
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swirlybomb
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Re: A Second Mario Thing: free alex

Post by swirlybomb »

oh yeah i guess its useless without context like that

There is, and it did get inserted into the ROM (although not 100% properly); the message box at the beginning of the chest room says "But...... can you eat the moose?" and the chest description of "The Moose" is "Maybe you shouldn't eat this."

Just a doofy little gag thing.
anonymousbl00dlust wrote:All the obstacles in my level can be beaten on the players first attempt without any 'future predicting'.
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Doctor Shemp
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Re: A Second Mario Thing: free alex

Post by Doctor Shemp »

I always appreciate puns, so thumbs up from me.
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Re: A Second Mario Thing: free alex

Post by swirlybomb »

...









If there's indeed a pun in there somewhere, someone needs to fill me in!!
anonymousbl00dlust wrote:All the obstacles in my level can be beaten on the players first attempt without any 'future predicting'.
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