A Second Mario Thing: free alex
Re: A Second Mario Thing: earlygame time!
Man, I had an affinity for really weird obstacles back when I made A Beach. The whole key-throw thing is strange and the platforms that make you bounce are weird. Also the thing with the midpoint and having to find the blocks and then even blocking you out so it's harder to use the bullet bill, which the bullet bill itself is weird. It feels like I was making a puzzle level rather than an action level!
And the thing with the chest not working was weird. I have no idea why there were teleport blocks there. You were supposed to enter the boss through a pipe, and there was an NPC before the pipe you were supposed to talk to too. Also I mentioned earlier in this thread that originally the level had no boss, but flameofdoubt suggested it because he felt the level ended too inconclusively. The boss seems pretty pointless now.
But yeah this was the second level I made for this hack. I made it right after THUMP was cleared. I clearly had more fun with the technical aspects of the level (water phanto, changing water color) than the actual level design. I have more faith in my other two levels which were made a lot later iirc, but they'll probably be not so good either. Whatever, it's still pretty fun to watch someone play my stuff as you would expect!
And the thing with the chest not working was weird. I have no idea why there were teleport blocks there. You were supposed to enter the boss through a pipe, and there was an NPC before the pipe you were supposed to talk to too. Also I mentioned earlier in this thread that originally the level had no boss, but flameofdoubt suggested it because he felt the level ended too inconclusively. The boss seems pretty pointless now.
But yeah this was the second level I made for this hack. I made it right after THUMP was cleared. I clearly had more fun with the technical aspects of the level (water phanto, changing water color) than the actual level design. I have more faith in my other two levels which were made a lot later iirc, but they'll probably be not so good either. Whatever, it's still pretty fun to watch someone play my stuff as you would expect!
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Re: A Second Mario Thing: earlygame time!
Oh ye gods, what have I done!?
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Left my thoughts in the video comments, wish I had more to contribute. Kinda feel like I'm failing as a game designer/rao fan if that's all I can bring to the table after following all y'all for as long as I've been
Rocky for most likely to derail or abort a thread just by posting 2014
Left my thoughts in the video comments, wish I had more to contribute. Kinda feel like I'm failing as a game designer/rao fan if that's all I can bring to the table after following all y'all for as long as I've been
Delightful Adventure Enhanced is out now!
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There's an official ASMT Discord server! Check it out to discuss Demo games and follow their development! thread, invite link
(Entry requires verification, either with a connected Youtube/Twitter/Twitch/etc account or manually by the server staff.)
Itch.io (albums and eventually games), Youtube (dofur pass and I guess other videos)
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Re: A Second Mario Thing: earlygame time!
Today's video description says important things. It's great to give alot of new designers a chance to make a level for a collab, but that does mean there's gonna be ALOT of work refining their levels. Or at least there should've been. With both this and the ASM-heavyness of A2MT, there's alot that can go wrong. And with all the management troubleys and biggeset ASMT peeps being tired, there's not enough power to make it all happen.
A beach is pretty well done, though it does have alot of questionable non-obstacles. It could've been very good, but as it stands it's just sorta almost okay. I liked the overall style, it's just unpolished to a degree where it stands in the way of enjoyment. The amount of empty room and singlerouted empty section jumps stand in the way of it feeling like an actual level.
A beach is pretty well done, though it does have alot of questionable non-obstacles. It could've been very good, but as it stands it's just sorta almost okay. I liked the overall style, it's just unpolished to a degree where it stands in the way of enjoyment. The amount of empty room and singlerouted empty section jumps stand in the way of it feeling like an actual level.
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Re: A Second Mario Thing: earlygame time!
Honestly those teleport blocks make no sense when you can clearly see the red goopa afterwards.
You know what I said in the description? It goes without saying that 'refinement' has to make sense and not break things!!!
You know what I said in the description? It goes without saying that 'refinement' has to make sense and not break things!!!
the chillaxest of dragons
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Re: A Second Mario Thing: earlygame time!
Those koopas had tiny mustaches.
Re: A Second Mario Thing: earlygame time!
Man, I have no idea what show you guys are talking about. It sounds like an anime.
I have never seen that colour changing water before, that was really neat!
I have never seen that colour changing water before, that was really neat!
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Re: A Second Mario Thing: earlygame time!
So, I guess the boss count of this game is up to two. This was supposed to be a boss heavy hack. We had Rising with Autoscroll Guy, and then this.
Re: A Second Mario Thing: earlygame time!
Pily's boss fight was at the very least near complete.
Dunno if it ever made it in, though.
Dunno if it ever made it in, though.
Why don't you eat me?
I am perfectly tasty...
AND I'LL STEAL YOUR SOUL!
I am perfectly tasty...
AND I'LL STEAL YOUR SOUL!
Re: A Second Mario Thing: earlygame time!
Man, so much raocow to catch up on, just got my internet back after moving house... had no idea the A2mt base rom would be ready to LP this quickly.
Really enjoying what I've seen so far, shame it had a bucketload of technical issues.
Really enjoying what I've seen so far, shame it had a bucketload of technical issues.
Re: A Second Mario Thing: earlygame time!
The Phanto jump section would have been a lot of fun as its own level and with a "save at every room" kind of set up. I don't mind trial and error difficulty at all, but it needs frequent checkpoints.
Also
Also
Saturn Moriya wrote:...ALOT...
Saturn plsAnd again the next day Saturn Moriya wrote:...ALOT...
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Re: A Second Mario Thing: not as good as smwcp2
Regarding the laissez-faire vs quality control thing- I think there is merit to both approaches. I mean, you're certainly going to get better quality with the smwcp2 approach, but there is going to be a lot less individual "voice".
I guess it just comes down to what the goal of the project is supposed to be. Personally, I think colab hacks should be regarded more as an opportunity for members of the community to express themselves. Sometimes that means really crappy levels. If all you want is a polished game, then yeah, quality control is essential.
That being said, if you do just want a polished game, why format the development as an open collaboration in the first place?
I guess it just comes down to what the goal of the project is supposed to be. Personally, I think colab hacks should be regarded more as an opportunity for members of the community to express themselves. Sometimes that means really crappy levels. If all you want is a polished game, then yeah, quality control is essential.
That being said, if you do just want a polished game, why format the development as an open collaboration in the first place?
alex2 wrote:It's all a matter of taste.
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Re: A Second Mario Thing: not as good as smwcp2
What I think should happen from now on is to let people make levels, to put in their own "voice" so to speak. Then we evaluate said level and apply a polish to said level.
The thing with this method is that people who submit levels need to be ok with their level being polished and possibly changed slightly.
Although that's just my thought on the matter.
The thing with this method is that people who submit levels need to be ok with their level being polished and possibly changed slightly.
Although that's just my thought on the matter.
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Re: A Second Mario Thing: not as good as smwcp2
What I don't understand is why people have compared (and will continue to compare) the two hacks. ASMT and SMWCP were comparable in that they both were run pretty much the same way, but A2MT and SMWCP2 had very, very different goals in mind. I'm also not sure if SMWCP2 has a -lot- less individual voice - yes, it's more cohesive, and yes, it's more "predictable" in what you can expect in terms of progression, but the actual levels themselves will have more than enough going for them and have enough personality to be memorable.anonymousbl00dlust wrote:I mean, you're certainly going to get better quality with the smwcp2 approach, but there is going to be a lot less individual "voice".
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Re: A Second Mario Thing: not as good as smwcp2
Thats exactly what quality control is.pholtos wrote:What I think should happen from now on is to let people make levels, to put in their own "voice" so to speak. Then we evaluate said level and apply a polish to said level.
The thing with this method is that people who submit levels need to be ok with their level being polished and possibly changed slightly.
Although that's just my thought on the matter.
Who evaluates the levels though? If you give that power to some small group of people, their personal taste is going to spread through the entire game. Then you might as well have let that group make a colab by themselves. On the other hand, if you have the evaluation be more democratic, you're going to get a single, mob voice consisting of average to sub-par level designers (see smwcp1).
EDIT: To be clear, I'm not saying your approach is necessarily wrong. I just don't see how it could be done.
alex2 wrote:It's all a matter of taste.
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Re: A Second Mario Thing: not as good as smwcp2
One group can focus on finding problems to fix and another will focus on fixing them. If the changes are only difficulty related or bugs, fixing those should not effect the meat of that level. Larger problems should be avoided in the process of getting those levels aproved to the game before large scale testing.
Re: A Second Mario Thing: not as good as smwcp2
How so?anonymousbl00dlust wrote:Regarding the laissez-faire vs quality control thing- I think there is merit to both approaches. I mean, you're certainly going to get better quality with the smwcp2 approach, but there is going to be a lot less individual "voice".
QA is essential for all games, whether they are single efforts or collaborations. The only type of game should get a free pass because of poor/no QA are contest compilations.I guess it just comes down to what the goal of the project is supposed to be. Personally, I think colab hacks should be regarded more as an opportunity for members of the community to express themselves. Sometimes that means really crappy levels. If all you want is a polished game, then yeah, quality control is essential.
So your product can be taken more seriously the further you drift away from the "inner circle" of people that's putting forth the effort.That being said, if you do just want a polished game, why format the development as an open collaboration in the first place?
People that know what they're talking about and are not afraid to say no.Thats exactly what quality control is.
Who evaluates the levels though?
It won't if these people know what not to touch and to only take care of issues that fall under "common sense problems and solutions"If you give that power to some small group of people, their personal taste is going to spread through the entire game. Then you might as well have let that group make a colab by themselves.
SMWCP1's QA was minimal, which ironically enough was still better than A2MT's.On the other hand, if you have the evaluation be more democratic, you're going to get a single, mob voice consisting of average to sub-par level designers (see smwcp1).
Last edited by MrDeePay 9 years ago, edited 1 time in total.
Re: A Second Mario Thing: not as good as smwcp2
SMWCP1 had very little testing done before its release. The problem was a lack of evaluation, not a "democracy".anonymousbl00dlust wrote:On the other hand, if you have the evaluation be more democratic, you're going to get a single, mob voice consisting of average to sub-par level designers (see smwcp1).
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Re: A Second Mario Thing: not as good as smwcp2
That's a good thing. Every group project needs a leader. A television series has a group of writers, but one head writer who controls the direction of the show and has the absolute authority to rewrite scripts from other writers as much or as little as he wants or even reject the scripts entirely. That's the only way you can get a good TV show. Games need to be run the same way.anonymousbl00dlust wrote:Who evaluates the levels though? If you give that power to some small group of people, their personal taste is going to spread through the entire game.
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Re: A Second Mario Thing: not as good as smwcp2
Anything story related should be done by the minority, but the original authors should be able to effect how their levels are altered. They should be allowed to make changes if they want to.
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Re: A Second Mario Thing: not as good as smwcp2
That's sort of my entire point. Both approaches are ok, but you have to stick to one. Problems arise when people disagree about those goals.S.N.N. wrote:What I don't understand is why people have compared (and will continue to compare) the two hacks. ASMT and SMWCP were comparable in that they both were run pretty much the same way, but A2MT and SMWCP2 had very, very different goals in mind.
Oh, I'm sure it will have personality. It's just a different kind of personality.S.N.N. wrote: I'm also not sure if SMWCP2 has a -lot- less individual voice - yes, it's more cohesive, and yes, it's more "predictable" in what you can expect in terms of progression, but the actual levels themselves will have more than enough going for them and have enough personality to be memorable.
EDIT: it's good to see I picked my avatar well
alex2 wrote:It's all a matter of taste.
Re: A Second Mario Thing: not as good as smwcp2
Sometimes the author isn't available.Willhart wrote:Anything story related should be done by the minority, but the original authors should be able to effect how their levels are altered. They should be allowed to make changes if they want to.
Sometimes the changes do not or should not require their approval.
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Re: A Second Mario Thing: not as good as smwcp2
Ok well what about this. Peeps who submit levels who actually stick around will get advice on how to make their level less... *insert word here* and then make changes to overall improve whatever's wrong, whether it's aesthetically or otherwise.
Meanwhile peeps who made levels but vanish off the face of the earth can have their levels changed based off of a given consensus over a large number of people... maybe.
Meanwhile peeps who made levels but vanish off the face of the earth can have their levels changed based off of a given consensus over a large number of people... maybe.
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Re: A Second Mario Thing: not as good as smwcp2
BAD, HORRIBLE, AWFUL, LESS THAN STELLAR.
~These are the words and phrases Pholtos doesn't like to uuuuuuse~
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Re: A Second Mario Thing: not as good as smwcp2
They don't need to approve the changes, but they should have the right to complain.MrDeePay wrote:Sometimes the author isn't available.Willhart wrote:Anything story related should be done by the minority, but the original authors should be able to effect how their levels are altered. They should be allowed to make changes if they want to.
Sometimes the changes do not or should not require their approval.
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Re: A Second Mario Thing: not as good as smwcp2
Fair enough, its not a great example. But you can't deny that level design philosophy at smwc during that time period was incredibly homogeneic. There wasn't direct quality control, but the general forum culture shaped people to make levels in a very specific way. That kind of mob mentality was more what I was referencing.S.N.N. wrote:SMWCP1 had very little testing done before its release. The problem was a lack of evaluation, not a "democracy".anonymousbl00dlust wrote:On the other hand, if you have the evaluation be more democratic, you're going to get a single, mob voice consisting of average to sub-par level designers (see smwcp1).
alex2 wrote:It's all a matter of taste.