M vs X

[Ditocoaf]

You people are making a bigger deal out of this than necessary.

ahahahahaha I can't stop laughing. Oh my god. Oh my.

I mean, yeah. It's a fair point. But. oh man.

[Ditocoaf]

...

Doctor shemp, I've only been here for a year longer than you have, and even I know the importance A2MT has. Even among those (like me) who never contributed to it, it's a part of this forum's history in a kind of significant way. It's more than "just another collab project, which happens to be unfinished". The people who did work on it, put three or four full collab project's worth of work into it over the course of years and years.

When you stomp in here calling it a piece of shit (or gracelessly sidestepping calling that) without knowing what you're talking about, you have no idea how much of an asshole you're being.

The fact is, a "what could have been" retrospective of what we can salvage from A2MT is even more interesting than the completed, polished SMBX episode you guys are doing (to some of us. at least 47 of us as of this moment). And while that might sound disparaging, it's really just a reflection of how big a deal A2MT is.

[Doctor Shemp]

Do you think I didn't lurk? I am aware of its significance and its emotional investment. I'm worried that it will be like other things that got developed forever and then finally came out only to be scorned and tarnish the memory of it completely. Essentially I'm worried that it will Duke Nukem Forever.

I guess I think differently to you on this. Ignore me then. I'll fuck off. At the end of the day it's your baby anyway.

[Doctor Shemp]

That's not true. If it was, why would I suggest a vote on the issue? Why would I then suggest that A2XT be played as the weekend B-side if that was the plan? Why would I now be suggesting that if a B-side plan isn't adopted that A2MT should be played in its entirety first since that is clearly the outcome of the poll?

The only thing I am concerned about is that A2XT is released when it's done rather than being sat on for raocow to play it. So long as that happens, I don't care when raocow plays it at all, so long as he does at some point. I just don't want to see a finished thing sitting there for no good reason.

So if SAJ is going to sit on the project until raocow plays it, then I would want it to be played before A2MT no matter what. If SAJ isn't going to sit on it, then I will abide by the result of the poll.

[MrDeePay]

You people are making a bigger deal out of this than necessary.

ahahahahaha I can't stop laughing. Oh my god. Oh my.

I mean, yeah. It's a fair point. But. oh man.

The difference here is that I tend to quip about more worthwhile things instead of penny ante garbage.

If I was in the situation that you and the others were in, I wouldn't want to see raocow or anyone play it. And I have been in that situation, because I have what would be hundreds of hours' worth of unfinished projects sitting on various computers, and I wouldn't want anyone to see them. Here's the step-by-step process of what is inevitably going to happen, based on the experiences of the few times I have released unfinished things and the times I've seen other people release unfinished things.

• raocow plays A2MT.
  He encounters something obvious that would be fixed in the finished product that isn't fixed here.
• Everyone, or at least most people, mock the shit out of it.
• Then they mock the shit out of the level maker.
• Then they mock the shit out of everyone in charge for never fixing the problem.
• Then they mock the shit out of the creators for never finishing the product.
• Then they mock the shit out of the creators for releasing it anyway.
• This occurs for every single mistake.
• Because people always accentuate the negative, this is what most people remember about it.
• A2MT stops being a fond wish of what could have been and becomes a bitter memory of what actually was.

I'm thinking of you here. You can only come out of this looking worse, and A2MT can only come out of this looking worse.

A2MT will likely not get hammered as much as you folks will think it will.

[Willhart]

Is A2MT going to take 2 months or longer?

[Alice]

Essentially I'm worried that it will Duke Nukem Forever.

I'm honestly not sure how you're making this comparison. DNF was a completely finished game that failed to live up to expectations. We all know that A2MT is incomplete and will have issues. And those that don't know this are likely going to be informed in the very first video of it by raocow himself.

[AUS]

Why would I then suggest that A2XT be played as the weekend B-side if that was the plan?

Good question why would you do that it goes against the idea and plan of the poll..I guess because you really can't wait for A2MBXT?

Why would I now be suggesting that if a B-side plan isn't adopted that A2MT should be played in its entirety first since that is clearly the outcome of the poll?

Um.. Wasn't that the idea in the first place? Great suggestion.

Hahaha. I'm just giving you crap for the lulz, I don't really care which one gets played first because to me it matters not. However, if you care about how the pro-A2MT people feel, you sure aren't phrasing your posts in a delicate way that shows this.

[Sorel]

If I was in the situation that you and the others were in, I wouldn't want to see raocow or anyone play it. And I have been in that situation, because I have what would be hundreds of hours' worth of unfinished projects sitting on various computers, and I wouldn't want anyone to see them. Here's the step-by-step process of what is inevitably going to happen, based on the experiences of the few times I have released unfinished things and the times I've seen other people release unfinished things.

• raocow plays A2MT.
  He encounters something obvious that would be fixed in the finished product that isn't fixed here.
• Everyone, or at least most people, mock the shit out of it.
• Then they mock the shit out of the level maker.
• Then they mock the shit out of everyone in charge for never fixing the problem.
• Then they mock the shit out of the creators for never finishing the product.
• Then they mock the shit out of the creators for releasing it anyway.
• This occurs for every single mistake.
• Because people always accentuate the negative, this is what most people remember about it.
• A2MT stops being a fond wish of what could have been and becomes a bitter memory of what actually was.

I'm thinking of you here. You can only come out of this looking worse, and A2MT can only come out of this looking worse.

Dear Doctor Shemp, you accused everyone of us to act like 5th graders. Congrats.

[Doctor Shemp]

Dear Doctor Shemp, you accused everyone of us to act like 5th graders. Congrats.

Read the ASMBXT LP thread starting from when the buggy levels start to turn up regularly. My description's pretty accurate.

[AUS]

So should we start taking notes and comparing the relative qualities of ASMT, ASMBXT, A2MT and possibly A2MBXT? For instance, was ASMBXT better than ASMT? Will A2MT be worse than ASMBXT? How much better will A2MBXT be than any of those?

I'm assuming that you're saying that A2MT will be "as bad" as ASMBXT. Remind me now, was ASMBXT bad? I don't remember what people thought of it.

[Sorel]

Dear Doctor Shemp, you accused everyone of us to act like 5th graders. Congrats.

Read the ASMBXT LP thread starting from when the buggy levels start to turn up regularly. My description's pretty accurate.

The difference: In SMW hacking, many problems can occur, while in SMBX, your only problem is the creator's inability to create a level in an engine where almost 0 problems can occur.

I'm using SMBX since 4 years now, and I never had any problem to deal with.

[Bwarch]

Dear Doctor Shemp, you accused everyone of us to act like 5th graders. Congrats.

Read the ASMBXT LP thread starting from when the buggy levels start to turn up regularly. My description's pretty accurate.

Shemp's fears, so far as people mocking the hell out of the bad/glitchy levels, are not unfounded honestly. People do grab onto the negative and people do criticize quite harshly when push comes to shove.

And if you don't think the community can't act immature you haven't been around long enough, Fluffi. Which you haven't been so I don't really blame you. We've had more than our fair share of stupid arguments, stupid rivalries, and petty drama... We're currently arguing over a couple games being played by a person over the internet and which one he should play first, after all...

It's pretty silly when you take a step back, honestly.

The difference: In SMW hacking, many problems can occur, while in SMBX, your only problem is the creator's inability to create a level in an engine where almost 0 problems can occur.

I'm using SMBX since 4 years now, and I never had any problem to deal with.

Oh no. You have no idea what you're going to set off here.

[Doctor Shemp]

Fuck's sake AUS I'm not saying to compare the quality, I'm saying that people will rip into bad levels regardless of who made them for what. And yeah, if you talk to some people here, they'll say that ASMBXT was a shit game because of all the buggy levels. Forget all the good things, forget well designed gems like Swampy Shy Shrine or Oh Shoot, They Shoot or neat gimmicks like Demo Dance Mix or Land of the Pacifists. What does everyone remember most? I'll give you a clue, it's got the word "optimal" in the title. This is because what really sticks in the mind are the bad ones because, as I said, people accentuate and remember the negative. And it's not just alex who says that, although you'd think redigit beat him up as a child from his reactions to the SMBX engine in general. It's quite a few people. If you think that people won't bash the shit out of the slightest problem and then tar the entire fucking game with the same shitty brush then you are being wildly optimistic.

[Willhart]

I have a feeling that A2XT is going to benefit more from the extra time. ASMT is not going to be changed anywhere regardless of the wait. I wonder if there is anything awesome that would take over a month to implement on smbx.

[Sorel]

The people who only critcize how bad a level is never even created one. That's a fact.

I lurked a bit here, so I know about the drama and stupid things... still can't believe how some people react to certain things.

[Bwarch]

Words.

Pretty much, as unfortunate as human nature is.

[AUS]

Fuck's sake AUS I'm not saying to compare the quality

I am. I'm saying it would be fun. It would definitely be more constructive than the shitty conversation going on right now.

Personally, though, on what you were talking about, I don't give a shit about fan reaction. Heck, I want a terrible level thrown in there. I don't literally mean that for practical purposes, but for like from a raocow-watcher point of view, because I'm the guy who loves watching ragecow videos.

The people who only critcize how bad a level is never even created one. That's a fact.

That..that.. That's not how facts do.
Try again.

[Sorel]

Uh... The error is the thing between th screen and seat? That's a... fact...?

[glitch4]

I'm missed how A2MT powerful it was, so I want to see how raocow lp this smw zombie hack and after that, probably send it back to graveyard (yes zombies come from graveyards).

[Bwarch]

So basically

[Doctor Shemp]

Fuck's sake AUS I'm not saying to compare the quality

I am. I'm saying it would be fun. It would definitely be more constructive than the shitty conversation going on right now.

Oh. Well, I think it's pretty hard to judge ASMBXT since it's very much a game of extremes, with some excellent levels and some terrible ones, to the point that I have no idea what the average quality is. And I haven't played A2MT, and comparing that would be tricky anyway since it's missing finished game things like a proper overworld. Still, from what I have played, I'd do my rankings A2XT > ASMT > ASMBXT. If we're including SDS too then I'd say SDS > A2XT > ASMT > ASMBXT but that's because I'm a sucker for gameplay-focussed episodes/hacks/whatever much more than I am for gimmick stuff and there are some seriously cleverly designed levels in SDS. And subtle clever design too, the kind you don't realise unless you play through analysing every block and enemy and what it's doing and why it's there. Which I would definitely recommend that everyone do to good levels. It's a great way to learn.

[Bwarch]

I'm gonna be real interested to see how a collab that came together in such short time is going to be better than collabs that people spent so much more time on, haha.

I don't DOUBT that it will be a thing mind you, I'm just interested in seeing it happen. Especially considering the design constraints in SDS.

[Doctor Shemp]

Unless you really like super-serious gameplay-focussed design you're not going to rank it as the best. I am definitely going to be in the minority ranking it that high. If you go into it expecting crazy gimmicks and wacky talkhaus humour you'll be disappointed. If you go in expecting a straight 2D Mario then you'll be very happy.

[Bwarch]

*shrug* I'm aware of how the collab came together and what it tries to be, so I might not be disappointed.

But I do love a nice, fun gimmick level, let it be said. Things like S Mario set my gears agrinding, even if that one did fall flat on its face.