Re: SMBX (2014 Yacht of Opinions): MaGL X - Whoohoo!
Posted: 07 Sep 2014, 16:13
by Xirix
YelseyKing wrote:
Horikawa Otane wrote:It might be another SMBX one and you could use Wohl's editor.
I'll definitely enter if it's another SMBX contest. If it's SMW... ehhh. It's not that I have no experience with Lunar Magic (which I don't), it's that I... don't really like SMW's engine overall. Oh well.
Same here, I am totally useless with Lunar Magic, but I learned a lot of things and got pretty confident with SMBX because of the contest.
Re: SMBX (2014 Yacht of Opinions): MaGL X - Whoohoo!
Posted: 08 Sep 2014, 01:01
by Zygl
Guys I broke MaGL X again.
I know how I did this, but I have no idea how to control what exactly shows up. Which is a problem, because this is an important part of the run.
Re: SMBX (2014 Yacht of Opinions): MaGL X - Whoohoo!
Posted: 08 Sep 2014, 01:19
by sedron
Zyglrox Odyssey wrote:Guys I broke MaGL X again.
I know how I did this, but I have no idea how to control what exactly shows up. Which is a problem, because this is an important part of the run.
... what... how?
Seriously though, how did you manage that?
I'm playing around in the level now, trying to figure out what you're doing and how it relates to speedrunning it. Depending on what it is, I may be able to figure out how to control what's happening.
Re: SMBX (2014 Yacht of Opinions): MaGL X - Whoohoo!
Posted: 08 Sep 2014, 02:22
by Zygl
sedron wrote:
Zyglrox Odyssey wrote:Guys I broke MaGL X again.
I know how I did this, but I have no idea how to control what exactly shows up. Which is a problem, because this is an important part of the run.
... what... how?
Seriously though, how did you manage that?
I'm playing around in the level now, trying to figure out what you're doing and how it relates to speedrunning it. Depending on what it is, I may be able to figure out how to control what's happening.
I grabbed one of the Koopa replacements in the first wave of that room, killed all of the enemies but one of the ones on the platforms by throwing it, then grabbed it again and ran into the last enemy with it. They both die, then for some reason SMBX freaks out and I have no idea what it does from there but that particular time I wound up carrying the first Expedition Toad for some reason.
If it helps, it seems to always give me another Koopa replacement and ten coins (giving me a 1up for some reason) when I do it from the midpoint. Which is how I expect that it'd be helpful in the run, I can just completely wreck the next two waves and Wart if I can get a shell out of it.
Or considering how weird this already is I could maybe get the star early somehow, but I don't think it gets things from hidden layers or that haven't already been processed so probably not.
Re: SMBX (2014 Yacht of Opinions): MaGL X - Whoohoo!
Posted: 08 Sep 2014, 03:01
by sedron
Zyglrox Odyssey wrote:
I grabbed one of the Koopa replacements in the first wave of that room, killed all of the enemies but one of the ones on the platforms by throwing it, then grabbed it again and ran into the last enemy with it. They both die, then for some reason SMBX freaks out and I have no idea what it does from there but that particular time I wound up carrying the first Expedition Toad for some reason.
If it helps, it seems to always give me another Koopa replacement and ten coins (giving me a 1up for some reason) when I do it from the midpoint. Which is how I expect that it'd be helpful in the run, I can just completely wreck the next two waves and Wart if I can get a shell out of it.
Or considering how weird this already is I could maybe get the star early somehow, but I don't think it gets things from hidden layers or that haven't already been processed so probably not.
Okay, I'm playing with it more, but here's what I got so far.
The glitch happens because you're killing two specific NPC's at once. The NPC's in the waves are all part of one layer and all have an event trigger when the last of that layer dies. When you kill them simultaneously like that, you're causing the game to trigger that event twice, or at least try to.
Or at least, that's my theory. It's something like that, but not exactly. I tested it on another level with a similar "wave of enemies," thing, and I cannot recreate it there. (For reference, I used my level from A2XT.) However, I have recreated it on the second wave of Too Many Toads by using the Grab Everything cheat. I've spawned the hopping frog and the springboard this way. I have not recreated it on the third wave. There's a line of text there, which my A2XT level does after every wave, so there's some possibility that that plays into it, but that seems a bit off to me.
Anyway, I'll keep looking into this, but that's what I got so far.
Re: SMBX (2014 Yacht of Opinions): MaGL X - Whoohoo!
Posted: 08 Sep 2014, 03:34
by sedron
8flight wrote:
The no more npc in layer event triggers only if you kill everything in the layer including shells.
Just to elaborate, SMBX technically treats things like shells and other NPC's in alternate states as a different NPC type. You can see this with the "Lakitus throwing Lakitus," NPC menu, which includes stuff like Ludwig in his shell. However, If an NPC changes in any way (such as a non-SMW Koopa becoming a shell, or a Rex being compressed,) it still carries over event triggers like the no NPC in layer trigger.
Some more findings...
I have no idea what's going on with this glitch.
I've gotten lots of different results from all three waves now (still none from the other level.) I've gotten coins, 1-ups, different enemies and sometimes nothing.
Twice I've created generators in the room before the fight, and both times the glitch triggered i actually ended up carrying the NPC generator. It does nothing when held, but starts generating when let go. This suggests to me that the game isn't reading totally random data; I originally thought that any number of variables like coin count, points, etc, could be involved, but I'm not convinced now that that's the case.
Which NPC's you kill last also seems to matter, but I'm not sure on that either.
All in all, this is just really confusing. I don't know coding well enough to actually look at anything (and from what I hear Redigit's work in this engine is a gigantic mess anyway.) I'll keep playing around with it, but I don't know that it's worth banking on for the speedrun.
EDIT:
In testing mode, placing a star in level while playing, then killing the last two NPC's ended up spawning a star for me. Interacting with other NPC's messed it up, though. I don't think you can get the star to spawn early otherwise.
Re: SMBX (2014 Yacht of Opinions): MaGL X - Whoohoo!
Posted: 08 Sep 2014, 04:28
by Zygl
sedron wrote:
I have no idea what's going on with this glitch.
I've gotten lots of different results from all three waves now (still none from the other level.) I've gotten coins, 1-ups, different enemies and sometimes nothing.
Twice I've created generators in the room before the fight, and both times the glitch triggered i actually ended up carrying the NPC generator. It does nothing when held, but starts generating when let go. This suggests to me that the game isn't reading totally random data; I originally thought that any number of variables like coin count, points, etc, could be involved, but I'm not convinced now that that's the case.
Which NPC's you kill last also seems to matter, but I'm not sure on that either.
All in all, this is just really confusing. I don't know coding well enough to actually look at anything (and from what I hear Redigit's work in this engine is a gigantic mess anyway.) I'll keep playing around with it, but I don't know that it's worth banking on for the speedrun.
I'm not 100% sure, but I think it might be based on which way I'm facing, which way the other enemy's facing, the order I kill the enemies in, and/or my health. I'm working off of those ideas at the moment, but haven't quite come up with anything worth mentioning yet.
Either way I already have a run where I got the koopa anyway, so if I can't figure out how to manipulate this (which I pretty much have to do if I want to improve on that run) I'll just upload that. I don't plan on not figuring it out, though, messing with weird glitches like this is one of my favorite things ever and it's not often I get the opportunity with the entire rest of the internet usually having already done it.
Re: SMBX (2014 Yacht of Opinions): MaGL X - Whoohoo!
Posted: 08 Sep 2014, 13:53
by Xirix
Horikawa Otane wrote:
Wasn't your train level like your first one or something?
Second....., we don't talk about my first one. It's the first one I put considerable effort into if that counts.
Re: SMBX (2014 Yacht of Opinions): MaGL X - Whoohoo!
Posted: 09 Sep 2014, 00:43
by Zygl
I did it guys. I solved the case. (Kinda. Well enough to do it in a speedrun, at least, but I still don't really get it.)
The run kinda flies south for the winter a bit toward the end but it's the best I can really do today due to unspecified circumstances and it only really costs me a couple seconds anyway.
Re: SMBX (2014 Yacht of Opinions): MaGL X - Whoohoo!
Re: SMBX (2014 Yacht of Opinions): MaGL X - Whoohoo!
Posted: 10 Sep 2014, 05:04
by Dragon Fogel
Ha, you can just jump over the boss! That's pretty funny. As is the post-star death.
Re: SMBX (2014 Yacht of Opinions): MaGL X - Whoohoo!
Posted: 15 Sep 2014, 19:55
by Jesuiscontent
rip
Re: SMBX (2014 Yacht of Opinions): MaGL X - Whoohoo!
Posted: 15 Sep 2014, 22:00
by Zygl
rip (Yeah real life kinda became a thing, progress is most likely going to be somewhere between glacial and nonexistent for a bit. Here's Traverse the Graveyard, though.)
Re: SMBX (2014 Yacht of Opinions): MaGL X - Whoohoo!
Posted: 16 Sep 2014, 14:22
by raocow
take the time you need man, gosh knows real life is more important
Re: SMBX (2014 Yacht of Opinions): MaGL X - Whoohoo!
Posted: 16 Sep 2014, 19:23
by YelseyKing
And just when he was getting close to my stage... grumble grumble.
Re: SMBX (2014 Yacht of Opinions): MaGL X - Whoohoo!
Posted: 17 Sep 2014, 22:52
by Doctor Shemp
If it helps you get going again, I'll give you a super-secret pro tip for getting the best possible time in my level:
unbind your up button.
Re: SMBX (2014 Yacht of Opinions): MaGL X - Whoohoo!
Posted: 17 Sep 2014, 23:19
by Doctor Shemp
8flight wrote:
Doctor Shemp wrote:If it helps you get going again, I'll give you a super-secret pro tip for getting the best possible time in my level:
unbind your up button.
You had a maglx level?
Yeah, it was "Talk to NPCs in a laboratory level #37".
Re: SMBX (2014 Yacht of Opinions): MaGL X - Whoohoo!
Posted: 18 Sep 2014, 01:14
by Leet
raocow wrote:take the time you need man, gosh knows real life is more important
he can't take the time he needs, he's speedrunning
if he slows down he will not have a really fast time
Re: SMBX (2014 Yacht of Opinions): MaGL X - Whoohoo!
Posted: 18 Sep 2014, 01:29
by KingTwelveSixteen
Leet wrote:
raocow wrote:take the time you need man, gosh knows real life is more important
he can't take the time he needs, he's speedrunning
if he slows down he will not have a really fast time
This is one of the best posts I've ever seen on the talkhaus.
5/5 stars, would laugh again. :D
Re: SMBX (2014 Yacht of Opinions): MaGL X - Whoohoo!
Posted: 24 Sep 2014, 22:05
by swirlybomb
Whenever you are able to return to speedrunning again, I certainly look forward to it! I really have to commend you for your dedication and skill, it's pretty amazing.
also oh man my level is "coming soon"
Re: SMBX (2014 Yacht of Opinions): MaGL X - Whoohoo!
Posted: 24 Sep 2014, 23:07
by YelseyKing
8flight wrote:Can someone remind me to never judge a contest in the winter again?
All right.
Hey 8flight, never judge a contest in the winter again!
Done.
Re: SMBX (2014 Yacht of Opinions): MaGL X - Whoohoo!
Posted: 26 Sep 2014, 01:32
by Xirix
Season has relavence to judging? O.o
Re: SMBX (2014 Yacht of Opinions): MaGL X - Whoohoo!
Posted: 26 Sep 2014, 10:43
by Alice
8flight wrote:
Xirix wrote:Season has relavence to judging? O.o
I'm 15.
You can figure the rest out.
Do modern 15 year olds hibernate through winter now or something?
Re: SMBX (2014 Yacht of Opinions): MaGL X - Whoohoo!
Posted: 26 Sep 2014, 10:57
by Jesuiscontent
Alice wrote:
8flight wrote:
Xirix wrote:Season has relavence to judging? O.o
I'm 15.
You can figure the rest out.
Do modern 15 year olds hibernate through winter now or something?
Hahaha yeah idgi either
Re: SMBX (2014 Yacht of Opinions): MaGL X - Whoohoo!
