SMBX (2014 Yacht of Opinions): MaGL X - Whoohoo!

[Mineyl]

Eh, I can't say I like the name gimmick that much, either, but it's way better than that box thing for MaGL 2.

[Mystick]

I laughed so hard I almost fell off my chair!

Umm, umm... top 5 so far? That'd be:

5. Okay, So Imagine a Japanese Cloud Train...
4. A Blue Fortress Level
3. Suddenly and Inadvertenly Climb
2. A Proud Yoshi in the Castle Ruins (THIS LEVEL DESERVES MORE RECOGNITION)
1. It's a SMB2 Level, Except More Dead (I don't think this name is correct...)

Today's levels were pretty good but the level design wasn't really great in Mountain ahd the SMB1 Epic level was wasted potential (in my opinion, of course).

(... should I stop commenting on this thread? It's way too late here).

[swirlybomb]

I'm MrDeePay and everybody's wrong except me!
don't take this mega-seriously by the way

Ideally, I wouldn't be using scores at all!

[...]

Also giving things a completely arbitrary score out of 100 doesn't seem at all plausible?? I'd personally have no idea what to do if I wasn't given specific categories to base it on.

Number ratings only exist "to make things more accessible," to put it bluntly; but that's a different discussion altogether.

??????????

I'm legitimately baffled and am curious to know exactly what it is you're thinking.
(also that particular comment was directed at Kil's saying that he thought giving arbitrary scores out of 100 is clearly superior to having scoring categories, in case you care)

Also:

Level Name Difficulty Difference

Level name difficulty will have a small impact on score. Easy levels will be an additional +0 to final score, Medium will be an additional +1, and Hard will be an additional +2. Difficulty is based on how hard the target level will be to create based on the generated level name. Generally speaking, the harder the level name, the longer and more complex the generated name. However, the difficulty difference is severe and you will find the harder levels will have much more difficult levels to make than the easier ones. If this is your first time, take an Easy level name and you'll still have an excellent chance to win. The point difference is primarily to differentiate between ties.

in case you're still wondering why that's an element.

the horizontal Jehovah's Witness mega spike

I feel the need to quote this because what even

The SMB1 Epic level was sort of interesting, but there were a couple things that could have be done better. The singular long fireball was sort of randomly stopped and was kind of a let down.

Pretty sure that's meant to be like a continuous breath of fire from Bowser, and it 'stops' because that's as far as he can project it. I probably explained that terribly but I'm sure you get the idea.



Gosh dang, today's levels (Mountain and It's An SMB1 Level Except Way More Epic) were pretty awesome!!

THERE IT IS, THERE'S THAT LUIGI FILTER

20TH PLACE IF I'M NOT MISTAKEN, WOOOOO

[MrDeePay]

I'm MrDeePay and everybody's wrong except me!

If you want me to play your little game of throwing rock-filled snowballs, you're going to have to do a little better than that. Stop fighting with your emotions, you'll get a lot more done when you do.

don't take this mega-seriously by the way

As if I'm going to believe you didn't mean to do that especially when you've tried running me through the mud in the past. Make your lies a little more believable.

??????????

I'm legitimately baffled and am curious to know exactly what it is you're thinking.
(also that particular comment was directed at Kil's saying that he thought giving arbitrary scores out of 100 is clearly superior to having scoring categories, in case you care)

- The number doesn't always reflect the review.
- The number doesn't tell nearly as much as the text does. People are impatient and lazy and will just stop at the number without going any further. This is a "necessary evil" for major publications for culture reasons.
- Not everyone enforces the same number scale. Some use 70/100 (7/10) as their average while others may use 50/100 (5/10). There are also people that use a 4-5 point scale, or even letter grades.
- Numbers can cause more trouble than it's worth to the point that you're better off using a completely different format to ease backlash.

The judges in this contest can use whatever format they feel is most beneficial to get the job done; I'm just throwing out an extra suggestion they could take into consideration and one I would push for if I had to be a judge myself.

The point difference is primarily to differentiate between ties.

in case you're still wondering why that's an element.

Then don't include Adherence to Level Name as part of the final score and it will only come into play in the case of a tie. As to spare yourself and everyone else the time, only apply it to any entries that tie while in a medal position.

Example: "In the event of a tie for a Medal Position (top 3), the ties will be broken by a series of tiebreaker as described below."

-> Best Average of Adherence to Level Name. In the case there's still a tie...
-> Best Average of "Overall Fun Factor" In the case there's still a tie...
-> Judges' Discretion. The judges will discuss amongst themselves who to award the win to.

I can bring up a pro (American) football example if you want a better example. Though if you're only offering cosmetic prizes, you shouldn't worry if anyone ties.

[devil†zukin]

am i the only one who thinks having an individual creative restriction is the coolest thing?

[Kil]

wow

I highly doubt there are 30 levels better than SMB1 But More Epic left in this thing

[Willhart]

Adherence to Level Name would have been there even without the gimmick. It is a wery important part of a good level to be easy to understand.

Edit: I just realised I wrote "very" with a W for some reason. I didn't even notice that before.

[Ditocoaf]

I reiterate: Why have we not made this person our leader?

I'd vote for him.

[Leet]

I can bring up a pro (American) football example if you want a better example. Though if you're only offering cosmetic prizes, you shouldn't worry if anyone ties.

are we even offering prizes at all

[Unaniem]

"I'm not okay with this and you shouldn't be either." followed by a waterfall of people telling why they're okay with it.

The story of MaGL.

[Willhart]

What would be your personal TOP 5 for the last 3/4 ?!

5. Okay, So Imagine a Japanese Cloud Train...
4. River volcano
3. The Right Man in the Wrong Place Can Make all the Difference in the World
2. It's a SMB2 Level Except Way More Dead
1. Swimming in the Sinking Ocean

[MrDeePay]

I like how in the last MaGL people were like "omg I hate the gimmick because it's really unfair to the players and you can be saddled with a bad box. Look at these levels for concrete examples of this."

But Dee's argument this time around seems to be simply "GRR GIMMICKS. WHY YOU NO NORMAL CONTEST"

Because penalizing entrants for asking for a mulligan or choosing not to use any of the level names they're offered (while it's still an improvement over the very limited box system) just doesn't seem like a good idea to utilize. Having it not count towards the final score and make it the first tiebreaker seems like the best of both worlds.

But if you want to gloss over it and, too, resort to petty attacks, be my guest. (If I say anything even slightly off-color, you're all on me as if I committed Murder 1.)

[Willhart]

I see your point now. The scores might be somewhat different that way. The compromises were not made though since the current way of scoring was the only option at the time.

[Noxy]

Personally in my heart of hearts I know that I would be the only objectively-correct judge and that the level list I am making for personal use is the only real truth there is.

[memnarch]

...

??????????

I'm legitimately baffled and am curious to know exactly what it is you're thinking.
(also that particular comment was directed at Kil's saying that he thought giving arbitrary scores out of 100 is clearly superior to having scoring categories, in case you care)

- The number doesn't always reflect the review.
- The number doesn't tell nearly as much as the text does. People are impatient and lazy and will just stop at the number without going any further. This is a "necessary evil" for major publications for culture reasons.
- Not everyone enforces the same number scale. Some use 70/100 (7/10) as their average while others may use 50/100 (5/10). There are also people that use a 4-5 point scale, or even letter grades.
- Numbers can cause more trouble than it's worth to the point that you're better off using a completely different format to ease backlash.

The judges in this contest can use whatever format they feel is most beneficial to get the job done; I'm just throwing out an extra suggestion they could take into consideration and one I would push for if I had to be a judge myself.

...

Perhaps it just got lost in the previous pages, but what was the method for ranking the submissions without using numbers? I really can't see how anything except numbers could handle the 134 entries.

wow

I highly doubt there are 30 levels better than SMB1 But More Epic left in this thing

I would be very surprised personally, if there are any that are worse than it. It seems kinda boring or slow.


@Horikawa, did anyone take a mulligan, or does that info need to wait for the contest to finish?

[BobisOnlyBob]

If you remove the scoring of name appropriateness/box usage/whatever gimmick we roll with in the future then it invalidates the "constraint" part of creative constraints. Why even give out names when there's no cost to ignoring them? People who've been pre-working on a level or have an incomplete episode with a really good level can just take it and submit it. The whole point of constraints is to ensure the contest begins on equal footing, everyone gets X days to create a thing starting and ending at the same time, and everyone starts with a blank canvas, the same tools, and a bunch of secret ingredients or a thematic goal.

Here's a question, for the crowd as well as specifically DeePay: how do you create a fair contest of creativity over a span of a month, without some kind of identiable creative constraint to prevent external or prior resources being excessively exploited or used?

[DatLeon]

am i the only one who thinks having an individual creative restriction is the coolest thing?

I agree with that. It doesn't only suppress the "cheating" (making a level before the contest starts) but also is more of a challenge for the participants. And that's the point where I just repeat things already said in this thread.
Still, I like the gimmick just because of that.

[Willhart]

It's funny how the short names got less bonus points than the long ones. Some think that those are harder to execute well, and both can be good with enought creativity and skill.

The long names are still more limiting/restrictive so I quess it works.

[MrDeePay]

Perhaps it just got lost in the previous pages, but what was the method for ranking the submissions without using numbers? I really can't see how anything except numbers could handle the 134 entries.

I don't know all of the format suggestions this forum used, but largely out of people complaining about getting this many points and whatnot, SMWC utilized an "unranked" format for the 2013 VLDC where the judges provided comments on how they felt about an entry and gave it a rating (Not For Me, Unfufilling, Ambivalent, Enjoyable, Favorites ). The rating would be "temporary" converted to a letter grade from A-F for obligatory reasons. When we finished individual judging, the four discussed with each other what should the Top 3 winners be with a couple of "stragglers" getting honorary mentions. The rest wouldn't be bothered with a ranking. (Essentially everyone else got last place.)

A side event was used that allowed non-judges to vote for their favorites, but their input wasn't taken into consideration for our judging for numerous reasons.

Of course, that contest only had around 85 entries- a far cry from 134- but still doable. (Yeah, it's a tough task, but who said it was ever easy?)

Personally in my heart of hearts I know that I would be the only objectively-correct judge and that the level list I am making for personal use is the only real truth there is.

0/10

If you remove the scoring of name appropriateness/box usage/whatever gimmick we roll with in the future then it invalidates the "constraint" part of creative constraints.
Why even give out names when there's no cost to ignoring them?

Already explained- use it as the first tiebreaker. If there's a tie, whoever adhered to their level name better gets the nod.

People who've been pre-working on a level or have an incomplete episode with a really good level can just take it and submit it. The whole point of constraints is to ensure the contest begins on equal footing, everyone gets X days to create a thing starting and ending at the same time, and everyone starts with a blank canvas, the same tools, and a bunch of secret ingredients or a thematic goal.

This is an issue that exists with all LDCs and cannot be avoided.

Here's a question, for the crowd as well as specifically DeePay: how do you create a fair contest of creativity over a span of a month, without some kind of identiable creative constraint to prevent external or prior resources being excessively exploited or used?

I wouldn't worry myself about lazy people trying to submit a preexisting level to the contest. For example, who's to say that I don't have a preexisting level for this contest and I just doll it up to adhere to any of the level names I'm given? Who's to say that I don't have a preexisting level for this contest and I strike gold and get a level name option that fits what I did?

I'd do a straight LDC. If I must have some special theme to add to it, I would score/grade them on their usage of it but it won't count towards the final score. If there's a tie make it the first tiebreaker; if there's a tie, make the higher overall average to Fun/Level Design/whathavou the next tiebreaker. If there's still a tie, let the judges discuss it out; if there's still a tie, let the community choose amongst the tied entries; failing that, I'd flip a damn coin.

That's all assuming that a tie must be broken for the contest.

[Doctor Shemp]

For example, who's to say that I don't have a preexisting level for this contest and I just doll it up to adhere to any of the level names I'm given?

It's usually obvious when things are shoehorned in like that. If I was judging and felt that shoehorning was occurring I'd dock quite a few points from the "does it fit the name" category.

Who's to say that I don't have a preexisting level for this contest and I strike gold and get a level name option that fits what I did?

That's unlikely, especially for the harder naming difficulties.

[yogui]

Oh Gosh DP is at it again.

What would be your personal TOP 5 for the last 3/4 ?!

Have a top 8 instead:
Dudes
Faithful, Lumpy Toad
Blue Sky Palace
Little Ruins
It's a SMB1 Level, Except Way Nicer
Too Many Trains in this Motherducking Tunnel
There's no Lava in the Motherpucking Level!
Mountain

Just a quick reminder to you guys that your entries for MaGC (Make a Good Complaint Contest) are due in ten days.

Remember, scoring is as follows:
1. Creativity (out of 10): Overall creativity of the complaint. Unique complaints will be awarded more points (e.g. "The pitch of raocow's voice in Part 37 really grated on my nerves. Next contest he should avoid speaking in that vocal range" will score higher than "placement sucks")

2. Adherence to complaint name (out of 700): As you all know, each contestant has received five randomly generated complaint names, such as "Too many Judges in the Mother******* Contest" or "Like the First MaGL, only More Gimmicky."

3. Ten bonus points for every page of bickering in the thread

rofl

[raocow]

page is late because of youtube, been trying to get this in since 7:30am (its now almost 9)

[SpoonyBardOL]

Youtube should be the secret final boss of MaGLX.

[Ometeotl]

Damn youtube.

[Quill]

So much hype.