Reverie - The Animal Well of SMW Hacks

[helucard]

wow.... just when I thought there literally could not be any more to fit in this space, we have more space.

... okay, time to start mapping again... I think maybe it would be fittingly artistic to invert the light / dark however...

In the process of writing this post, I had an inkling about something.
I took pictures. I drew comparisons.
And I've discovered something horrifying.

The game is undoubtedly going to make this obvious in some way, I'm merely leaving this here for posterity.
But for those who would like to see what I saw that made things click, take a look at the image within.

This is the gate of Origin, and the hill in Genesis.
If you can't figure it out, I'm sure tomorrow will make things clearer.
But if you really REALLY want to know my realisation now...

The numbers. They're upside down. Our world has flipped, and it's taken our maths with it.

[CrappyBlueLuigi]

folks in the video comments are fixated on solving the cipher proper (i.e. understanding how the cipher relates to latin characters and what pattern governs the ordering and determines that relationship) but seem stumped on the logic of it, and reading all that got me excited to share my knowledge from when i played, so here's me farting out the full logic to the cipher for the curious. this is full spoilers--so read at your own risk!!--but i will be breaking it up into several spoiler tags to let readers continue to piece some things together on their own if they'd like. but for serious don't read this if you haven't figured out the cipher at all or wanna discover the logic yourself

first off, two things that inform the logic, for those who still want to figure out the rest of it but could use a springboard:

1. one letter is dropped entirely

   . secondarily to this,

   the dropped letter does not affect any of the words written in-game

   .

2. the vowels are all assigned to characters with a dot in the center

   . secondarily to that,

   y is not considered a vowel here

   .

from here, i'll peel away the other layers to it.

• the cipher characters are related to the glyphs

  . specifically,

  the lines bordering them are inversions of the line added to the glyphs and rotated at every multiple of 5, with the characters starting fully bordered with one side opening at a time instead

  .

• the characters progress the same way as the glyphs but inverted vertically

  . this means that

  the inner angle lines start from the bottom right and rotate counter-clockwise, while the opening in the borders starts at the bottom and rotates counter-clockwise

  .

• the starting character is a dot with full borders

  . subsequently,

  because the vowels are all the characters with dots, every fifth character in the sequence is a vowel

  .

• the alphabet is otherwise in order

  .

given all this, the full solution for the cipher unfurls like so:

lastly, a quick message for anyone who's played/seen this game in full already and may have a specific thought abt me posting all this:

i figured this all out before even getting the second exit, so, yes, all of this is information you would be able to piece together by then ^_^

[raocow]

wow.

I did it, I deciphered it :O

I just double checked with CrappyBlueLuigi and our conclusions match!

oh my gosh.

this will not be represented in tomorrow's video, btw

[KobaBeach]

omg that's so awesome

[helucard]

Heck yeah :D GG both of you, I don't think I would've figured that out, ever - I think

the lack of a Z would've led me to believe it was a false cipher and left it there if the comments were not SCREAMING about it being legit.

[Kincyr]

regarding the cypher:

the vertical inversion seems out of left-field

, at least

until Genesis is reached, where it then makes sense. that's some amazing foreshadowing

I probably should have mapped the letters myself onto paper or an art program to better see what patterns I could potentially see,

especially since exactly half of the consanants were not used by the statues (specifically B, G, J, K, L, N, P, Q, W, and X) and placing everything that had been seen into a 5x5 grid is enough to discover the pattern

[helucard]

This... took hours. But I translated it. All of it.
- the 5 animals
- the 6 statues
- the 4 grids
- the 2 parchments & the tree text
- the wall in the grotto.

The moment I saw the first message in Fissure, I was like "Okay (pen click) ... Translation time" (Thank you CrappyBlueLuigi for the cipher guide btw!)
Then I saw the literal - LITERAL - wall of text in the Grotto. "Okay. Hey, at least they can't seriously expect too much more, right?"
..... then the animals began to talk.

So hubris is a word that I would use to describe what struck me on my sunday afternoon.

Also, entirely unrelated to anything, I'm choosing to believe the animals are speaking in some variant of Al Bhed.

If you would prefer to spend time translating this stuff yourself, have at it.

Otherwise, here. Everything from the video. Translated in its entirety.
(edit: This is up to date as of Episode 16)

Fissure:
Upward pit parchment:
THE ANCIENT NAME OF THE FIRE. (top right hex is FYR)

The snake:
THE LONE TREEHOUSE IN THE LAND OF EARTH... CALL UPON THE NAME AND IT SHALL OPEN.
CALL UPON THE ANCESTOR OF THAT LAND.

The grid:
UQHV
FWLE
IGCX
-----
Grotto:
THE WALL OF TEXT (hahahahaha... AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA... No. This wasn't fun.)
- Top Row
A: HIS DARKNESS BLEEDS INTO THE HEAVENS.
B: HIS DARKNESS BASKS IN THE FLAMES.
C: WITHIN THE ABYSS, HIS DARKNESS FLOURISHES.
D: HIS DARKNESS IS EVERLASTING.
- Middle Row:
A: HIS DARKNESS WALKS AMONGST THE TREES.
B: THE INFLUENCE OF HIS DARKNESS ONLY GREW WITH TIME.
C: HIS DARKNESS DEFILES THE EARTH.
D: THE FIRE ENGULFS HIS DARKNESS.
- Bottom Row:
A: HIS DARKNESS POLLUTES THE DEEP OCEAN.
B: THE VOID EMBRACED HIS DARKNESS.
C: THE SEA WASHED OVER HIS DARKNESS.
D: THE SKY ENVELOPS HIS DARKNESS.

The grid:
UQAK
FWLE
IGCX

The beetle:
A DORMANT BEING RESTS IN THE SKIES BELOW. IT WILL ONLY WAKE WHEN CALLED BY NAME.
ITS NAME CAN BE LEARNED AT THE CENTER OF GENESIS.
-----
Cenote:
The grid:
UQHK
OWLE
IGCX

The fish:
THE SURFACE OF THE REALM SITS ABOVE THE ABYSS.
TO ASCEND BEYOND THE VOID, LEARN THE ANCIENT NAME. RECITE IT ONCE.
-----
Swamp:
The tree:
THE ESSENCE OF A LAND IS ITS CENTER.

The lil munchy plant:
THE TRUE ESSENCES AND THE REFLECTED ONES ARE CONNECTED THROUGH A SIMPLE DANCE.
(The Origin symbols for 17 - 11 - 9 - 23)

Ep16 - The grid:
UQHK
FRLE
IGMX
-----
Welkin:
The bird:
THE (Origin symbol for 11) WRITINGS OF VOID CAN BE FOUND IN THE ABYSS ABOVE.
THE STONE GRIDS MARK THOSE IMPORTANT, BY THE NAME OF THE VOID ANCESTOR.

The grid:
UQHK
FWLE
IGCS

The note at the compass - I THINK I have the spacing right. If not, I hope it's not toooo important:

Code: Select all

▓▓▓▓▓▓▓O▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓
▓A▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓P
▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓N▓▓▓
▓▓▓I▓▓▓▓▓C▓▓▓▓▓▓
▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓
W▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓
▓▓▓▓▓S▓▓▓▓X▓▓▓▓▓
▓▓▓E▓▓▓L▓▓▓▓▓▓K▓

-----
Ruins:
The clock... Once you figure out what's wrong with it, you can open my "posterity" note from yesterday to confirm if you'd like.

Ep15 - The grid:
UBHK
FWLE
IGCX

Ep15 - The eerie:
THE PATH TO THE DORMANT BEING IS SEALED BY THE FOUR GLYPHS IN THE SKY.
THEIR ANCIENT NAMES WILL HELP IN BREAKING THAT SEAL.

Piranha Plant statue:
SEROLF
ANCESTOR OF EARTH

Parabeetle statue:
OLEIC
ANCESTOR OF SKY

Micro Dino Rhino statue:
OGEUF
ANCESTOR OF FIRE

Ninji statue:
ARBMOSV
ANCESTOR OF VOID

Boney Beetle statue:
JOLER
ANCESTOR OF TIME

Fish statue:
RAMLE
ANCESTOR OF SEA

---
ANYWAY, on a much lighter note, here's the Genesis map so far.
Edit: Updated as of Ep15

Notes:
the pause menu map has some rooms of Welkin we haven't visited yet.
the note blocks of the swamp are marked with green pips. The broken one is a X.
the statues of the ruins have grey pips.
Ruins and Cenote accessible zones of the Fissure are shaded red and green respectively.

[Lord Ruby]

Welkin:
The bird:
THE (Origin symbol for 11) WRITINGS OF VOID CAN BE FOUND IN THE ABYSS ABOVE.
THE STONE GRIDS MARK THOSE IMPORTANT, BY THE NAME OF THE VOID ANCESTOR.

This pretty much confirms that

the origin glyphs should be turned upside down, since that would yield an accurate 12

, no?

Either way, thank you for your service

[helucard]

Welkin:
The bird:
THE (Origin symbol for 11) WRITINGS OF VOID CAN BE FOUND IN THE ABYSS ABOVE.
THE STONE GRIDS MARK THOSE IMPORTANT, BY THE NAME OF THE VOID ANCESTOR.

This pretty much confirms that

the origin glyphs should be turned upside down, since that would yield an accurate 12

, no?

Either way, thank you for your service

Everything I'm seeing points to that.

Which is why I've specified "Origin symbol for..." in my number glyphs. I fully believe any instance of a number on Genesis side to follow that particular quirk.

[helucard]

Alrighty, following today I've updated the translations log and the map in the post above. We have a surprise room through a non-physical wall :0 That hasn't been done yet! At least, as far as we know. Haven't seen anything hint to that yet, so either that's extremely rude, or that's information we should perhaps have later...

One thought I had about the Genesis to Origin dance on the essence glyph screens, I have a thought.
To make it work in Genesis, you used the Genesis numbers, and then used them "backwards" (anticlockwise).
Would restoring it right-way up to Origin numbers, and dancing "forwards" (clockwise) work in Origin to take us back?

Regardless, I can't figure out why that would be required. Each of the glyph rooms are rather open, so it's not to gain access to a separate part of a screen we've seen, or to reach a screen we haven't seen yet. Furthermore, the fact that the trip from origin to genesis was a one-way trip led me to believe we were done in origin. This implies we aren't. Furthermore, there's multiple entry points, which implies "convenient travel options" were considered necessary. That's an interesting thought.

[Kincyr]

here's something I noticed about the waffles:
(updated with info gained in video 16)
they are

identical, save for one letter in each area with the exception of Swamp, which has two

unmodified, the waffle reads as follows:

Code: Select all

UQHK
FWLE
IGCX

in each area, one or two letters in the waffle is changed. here are the changes:
UBAV
ORLE
IGMS

[helucard]

My thoughts on the grid and the Grotto's texts, including the deviations between each grid.
Followed by a realisation on our assumptions of the colours.

Lets start by discussing what we know already.

From the bird in Welkin:
THE (Origin symbol for 11, which we now know is) 12 WRITINGS OF VOID CAN BE FOUND IN THE ABYSS ABOVE.
THE STONE GRIDS MARK THOSE IMPORTANT, BY THE NAME OF THE VOID ANCESTOR.

So the stone grids mark important writings on the tablets. But "by the name of the void ancestor" needs to mean something.
So lets take the grid we discovered today, and mark the unique points, as was done in video.
At co-ordinate 2x,2y was a unique R. From the wall, this is: "THE INFLUENCE OF HIS DARKNESS ONLY GREW WITH TIME."
At co-ordinate 3x,3y was a unique M. From the wall, this is "THE SEA WASHED OVER HIS DARKNESS."
So we know that 2x,2y and 3x,3y are marked. This gives us stuff. But what does this have to do with the name of the void ancestor?

Well, the void ancestor is ARBMOSV, or VSOMBRA if we read them like our genesis numbers. Both R and M are letters of that name.

Fissure has a deviation at 4x,1y. V. Another letter of the void ancestor. "HIS DARKNESS IS EVERLASTING."
Grotto has a deviation at 3x,1y A. "WITHIN THE ABYSS, HIS DARKNESS FLOURISHES."
Cenote has a deviation at 1x,2y. O. "HIS DARKNESS WALKS AMONGST THE TREES."
Swamp, as we've seen, are R and M.
Welkin has a deviation at 4x,3y. S. "THE SKY ENVELOPS HIS DARKNESS."
Ruins has a deviation at 2x,1y. B. "HIS DARKNESS BASKS IN THE FLAMES."

There's a lot of potentials here, a lot of "what if we do this, will we get an order that Matters" and... That's a lot of effort to put into potentially useful things that I currently don't feel like doing. But we do have the group.

But I realised something VERY interesting as I looked at these messages.

Fissure. Top right. Its message relates to Time.
Cenote. Top left. Its message relates to Earth.
Swamp. Bottom left. Its message relates to Sea. ... and also time maybe? I'm currently cooking another theory on that, so... lets put that one over there for a moment and think about it later...
Ruins. Bottom right. Its message relates to Fire.
These all match.
Grotto. The position at the top. But its message points to Void?
Welkin. The position at the bottom. But its message points to Sky?
... of course. We're upside down. The bird and the beetle refer to the "abyss above" and the "skies below".
... but this means that Yellow is void and Purple is sky now, going by the leaf colours. That must be meaningful somewhere.

[PSI Ninja]

The way I solved the door maze puzzle in Fissure was also through brute force. First, exactly what was shown through the Munchers, then reflecting the pattern across the x-axis, then trying to rotate by 180 degrees, and finally reflecting across the y-axis. I've been trying to justify why the y-axis reflection is the solution, but the best I could do is that Swamp and Fissure are on opposite sides of the Genesis map horizontally, and that Swamp's sign glyph is while Fissure's sign glyph is reflected in the same way as . The "inverted" tree trunk explanation is interesting, though. Didn't think of it like that.

Something I didn't realize during my own playthrough that can be observed in the video:

The Muncher sequence can be mapped exactly to the title screen melody, as if they are singing the song. If that was intended, that's a cool touch.