All the S@nics - Chronicles: the Dark Brotherhood - Lara-Sued

[KobaBeach]

oh no, I just remembered what's next up

I almost hope raocow has another one-shot ready just so that one can begin on 1000

we must all suffer the same pain, your blood their blood serves the same

[Crow]

It's hard to believe it's almost time for the 1,000th ATS video.

oh no, I just remembered what's next up

I almost hope raocow has another one-shot ready just so that one can begin on 1000

there was the sonic chronicles flash game but from what i've told it would've been before olympics java phone mode if he was including it so no i think today is gonna be /that/ episode 1

[raocow]

that flash game is just not complete enough without jumping through an amount of hoop I'm just not willing to do. sorry!

[Catabo]

I hope you're ready to read the codex in this BioWare game!

This is one of those games i was momentarily hyped about (it's a Sonic game by BIOWARE! that's the Star Wars KOTOR guys! this is gonna be great!) but then just kinda forgot about. Probably a good thing in the end? Hopefully cowman will still be able to play it the whole way through, because i'm still a little curious about it but not enough to get it working and play it myself.

[EllenHouraisan]

If the LP manages to continue properly, I hope it continues to be Sonic Chronicles: the Dark Brotherhood: the musical!

[Lord Ruby]

Update to the video description, in case people haven't seen:

Screenshot_20220514_115034.png (16.45 KiB) Viewed 284 times

Apparently the universe has it's own way of conspiring to make the true start of this game the thousandth episode, ahaha. Or maybe that'll be 999, who knows. 999 is notable number too.

Since the video might kind of get shoved to the side, I guess I'll put my first impressions here too:

While there are obvious issues (sound), this also looks ... kinda promising...? Like ... probably not good because of the development troubles, but ... could have been good if it had more development time? So far, I think this game has a really neat way of designing an overworld for an RPG spinoff of a platformer series (although exploring it in practice seems to go for an unfortunate degree of skill checks that you'd have to backtrack for). The battle system also looks like it could be interesting.

[QuiEstFaba]

This series has really gone places in the name of emulating. Old arcade cabinets, educational software that came with interactive books, obscure consoles, an add-on for a console controller, Flash emulation websites, mid '00s cellphones... and now, seven-year-old emulation software.
I really shouldn't be surprised if there turns out to be more.

[Grounder]

Oh hey, Amy, how's it going?

...Uh, Amy?

AMY!

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AAAAAAAAAAH

[KobaBeach]

all the models are so ugly

i'm gonna try and follow the lp for this because WOW it's a thing

[camwoodstock]

ignoring the game itself for a bit, which is fairly difficult tbf: genuinely, there is no real way to properly convey just how negatively impactful chronicles: the dark brotherhood was for the entire sonic brand. like not just in terms of being a bad game, but the actual consequences of it, due to the fact this is the only game in the FRANCHISE that has proverbial blood on its hands. with a game like sonic 06 or sonic forces or sonic boom or a fourth popular to bully sonic game, at least their badness is basically limited to just those games. which is in stark contrast to the actual genuine consequences chronicles had.

like, this game has had impacts on elements from the series that were over a full decade old by the time it came out, and retconned them/sent them into such a legal hell that there's no chance of them returning. this game has had reverberating consequences on elements from the series that are coming out now. not only have entire characters had elements of them just Removed, not only have entire characters been removed, entire canons and spin-offs had their whole mythology irrevocably removed from existing. sonic underground is probably the most fascinating example because it literally does not exist anymore in any canonical capacity, even as a spin-off, and we will very literally never get the epilogue to its story because it too was thrust into the copyright limbo that ensued because of dark brotherhood. at least with SATAM it got SOMETHING, but underground was literally just thrust unto a limbo of its own and it is just Doomed to never get an ending. yes, this does mean they broke their vow, their mother won't be found.

it's telling that like, us, Certifiable Wall Of Text Sayers, cannot properly articulate just the scope of how drastic the subsequent lawsuit and its consequences were. a list would literally probably not even be comprehensive. people are still Desperately trying to get at least a few elements out of the copyright limbo as recent as 2021 and it has not worked a bit (and in the case of the scourge thing, it may have literally plunged them even deeper into it.) entire chunks of the sonic mythology are just GONE. it's probable that even outside of the immediate effects of this lawsuit and all the characters, traits of pre-existing characters, and entire canons that were chucked unto a limbo, there's a ton of internal things we don't even KNOW about that the lawsuit did. there's like a non-zero chance we will NEVER fully understand the scope of how Horrific this was for the sonic branding.

basically sonic chronicles: the dark brotherhood is the only sonic game that is so bad that it has genuine actual consequences for its existence, nice job bioware

&: A relevant image for Cam's little ramble, by the by.

[KobaBeach]

is it really bioware's fault when most of it is caused by ken penders' insane ego, rivaled only by yuji naka. anyway i hope he legit gets sued to death by paramount if he tries to go after the hint of the knuckles tribe in the sonic movies

[camwoodstock]

is it really bioware's fault when most of it is caused by ken penders' insane ego, rivaled only by yuji naka. anyway i hope he legit gets sued to death by paramount if he tries to go after the hint of the knuckles tribe in the sonic movies

realistically it's mostly ken penders but also considering the game itself was primarily a joint production with bioware they also probably aren't exactly guilt-free. it's also probably why there aren't any other bioware developed sonic games off the top of our heads, as aside from *gestures at everything that went down* the game itself generally isn't considered all that great

[Grounder]

also bioware is owned by ea now sooooo

yeah, either 100% noncanon now (for however much that counts on any given day) or literally the last one in terms of placement

[Peptobislawl]

Since this LP is not dead, I should give raocow some fair waring about SECRET CHARACTERS OOOOOHHHH! The first one is found during chapter 3, just find the character on the map and do a sidequest for them, once you finish the sidequest they will join you.
The second and last character is found during chapter 5. You just need to find them this time, but they are more well hidden.
These characters are both existing sonic characters so you should know when you find them, but they are missable so be careful.
Inside the spoiler are the names of these two characters and further tips on where they are:

Cream the Rabbit is the one in chapter 3, on a return trip to Green Hill Zone she's seen on an island in the upper middle and her sidequest is to find Cheese who's in a tower to the east of Green Hill.
E-123 Omega Is found in Metropolis, in a building to the northwest of the map that requires some climbing to get into.

[EllenHouraisan]

I feel it's hard to blame Bioware for getting hit by what amounts to a glorified copyright troll, game quality notwithstanding.

[thatguyif]

...You know, it's rather funny. People here say Chronicles was extraordinarily bad because of the lawsuits and shit. But after the calamity of this particular year of 2008 CE, we start seeing a slow but meaningful recovery, embers of which we will see in Unleashed. While 2009 had Black Knight (which, while still one of the shitty Wii games, was still an improvement over Make Beliefs Reborn), 2010 you had Colors, 4: Episode I, and All Stars Racing, all of which are very good games. 2011 had Generations, which is great. 2012 and 2013 had 4: Episode 2 and Lost World, which while not good, were still miles ahead of what we've been seeing over the previous 5 or so years where we're currently at in All the Sonics. (Also All Stars Racing Transformed, which was also good)

Common thread to all these games is they stepped away from all the lore that had developed over the prior decade. They kind of went back to basics, really. No overwrought narrative, no excessive amounts of characters, no big backstory for some secondary character. And they were all...good, with exception to a couple.

I feel like Chronicles may be a bad game, but in a different way: It represents all the worst tendencies of games that have an unnecessary focus on lore and narrative. Granted, you expect that from BioWare, but still, the principle is the same. I think the lesson Sega learned from Chronicles was that having such excess was not good for the franchise. So they did away with a lot of it, including pushing extra characters and story to the margins...and turned out (mostly) the better for it.

Ken Penders fucked over the comics, sure, but that didn't really matter. The games never used characters from the comics, it was always the other way around. His lawsuits against Sega and EA were dismissed without prejudice—legalese for "the fuck outta here"—twice. In other words, Penders' argument about them (that they stole some characters of his) was considered a joke, and the lawsuit had no real impact on what Sega was doing at the time. Most of the characters that people complain about had already been pushed to the margins by the time the lawsuit happened (and the lawsuit itself had nothing to do with the characters people complain about). So this idea that Chronicles has "blood on its hands" is laughably absurd.

I get the feeling that the anger and resentment about this game has much to do with people who are deeply wedded to the comics, and have a complete misunderstanding of what really happened. And it's funny to watch people lose their shit over something that didn't happen.

[KobaBeach]

4: Episode I, (...) which are very good games.

I wholeheartedly disagree but I'm not gonna tell you to stop liking it

it's also probably why there aren't any other bioware developed sonic games off the top of our heads, as aside from *gestures at everything that went down* the game itself generally isn't considered all that great

I feel like that's not Bioware's fault and more of a huge misunderstanding of what makes timed hits fun (cough this game, cough yiik) combined with EA's buy out.

[camwoodstock]

I get the feeling that the anger and resentment about this game has much to do with people who are deeply wedded to the comics, and have a complete misunderstanding of what really happened. And it's funny to watch people lose their shit over something that didn't happen.

we do get the take of "well that's a bit excessive" but the subsequent follow-up of "well actually nothing particularly bad happened!" is. Baffling. there's actual documented consequences for the lawsuits.

like i get poking at the particularly extreme tone and how it's silly, we will concede that, but there are things that did go down, there's entire fan wiki articles dissecting the consequences of these events (incomplete, mind), and most notably of which are actual mandates sega has openly put out regarding the sonic branding. mandates that we still do, in fact, see the consequences of.

it's not "just the comics" mind you; a few characters from the "main" console games (well, as "main" as you get for a series like sonic), most notably black doom/evil pete, an entire villain from shadow the hedgehog, is just kinda Locked to that game now for all eternity, are just in a limbo state now. also the fact that sonic underground's entire ending was originally going to be put into the comics as the series never got a proper final season, but when Everything Regarding The Comics struck, that ending was just lost to copyright limbo; so there's... at least one entire spin-off that's gonna go unresolved. the mandates also, hilariously, took out the concept of sonic showing excessive emotion. make of that one what you will.

so like... no, there were consequences of this. was the tone of our original message a bit silly? yeah. but the take of "well nothing actually happened so that's a little funny you mention it!" is just kind of. wholly mis-interpreting the entire point of the message. bc there's a reason we haven't seen evil pete in awhile and it's the "nothing" you mentioned, which when you think about it is kinda bonkers (he is pretty much a one-off villain for the game but like... that's a core-ish part of shadow's backstory from that particular game that they aren't even allowed to allude to)

[Grounder]

things

If people genuinely think that Chronicles affected SEGA's story policy instead of the "Sonic's shitty friends" meme, that's on them.

It has, however, undoubtedly had an impact on how closely they scrutinize what licensees are doing, the obvious example here being IDW being much more restrained in what they can do, sometimes outright to the detriment of their stories.

Ken Penders being an insufferable little cockwomble in general has also not helped the black hole Chronicles has turned into over the years.

[KobaBeach]

we do get the take of "well that's a bit excessive" but the subsequent follow-up of "well actually nothing particularly bad happened!" is. Baffling. there's actual documented consequences for the lawsuits.

tgif is always like this, see the "If You Want To Be A Touhou You Are Probably A [REDACTED]" sentence in the killer7 thread and also. everything about the killer7 thread

[EllenHouraisan]

most notably black doom/evil pete, an entire villain from shadow the hedgehog, is just kinda Locked to that game now for all eternity, are just in a limbo state now.

I thought that had less to do with Chronicles and more to do with the fact that nobody likes him. Other than me.

[camwoodstock]

tgif is always like this, see the "If You Want To Be A Touhou You Are Probably A [REDACTED]" sentence in the killer7 thread and also. everything about the killer7 thread

we didn't pay much attention to the killer7 lp aside from waiting eagerly to joke about killers 1-6, which we forget if we even did :p

edit: we forgot to do so it turns out (boowomp.wav)

I thought that had less to do with Chronicles and more to do with the fact that nobody likes him. Other than me.

talkhaus is the known epicenter of evil pete fans, it's okay you can admit to this much

If people genuinely think that Chronicles affected SEGA's story policy instead of the "Sonic's shitty friends" meme, that's on them.

well hey with how obsessed sega is with self-deprecating after years of avgn wannabe internet critics shredding them a new one who knows, it could be both, ha ha, haaaaaa

[KobaBeach]

I thought that had less to do with Chronicles and more to do with the fact that nobody likes him. Other than me.

It's okay I like Zavok. I'd explain why but we have a no porn rule

we didn't pay much attention to the killer7 lp aside from waiting eagerly to joke about killers 1-6, which we forget if we even did :p

It was mostly him trying to explain the meaning of the story but a lot of it sounded so unhinged that I'm not even sure if it's true or not because what the fuck. Also, Ellen mostly described it as "him taking suda51's assassin fantasy game too seriously"

He also tried to explain AYAME as like,

she was raped by Curtis so much, she broke and took on an anime girl persona likely because he was really into anime

(cw:

rape mention

) and that "it should say a lot about people who want to be anime" which is completely insane and was also not spoilered

From what I can tell Curtis is a misogynistic, abusive fuck who legit does that to his victims, but this is an absolute reach, and there seems to be no mention of him ever being into anime

[camwoodstock]

It's okay I like Zavok. I'd explain why but we have a no porn rule

my "i'd explain but we have a no porn rule" shirt is answering a lot of questions asked because of my "i'd explain but we have a no porn rule" shirt

[QuiEstFaba]

...$!?! the presses, this was the basis for the Ken Penders lawsuit?
This was the first domino in the Ken Penders OC NFT chain?
this is why God and society have to answer for The Lara-Su Chronicles eventually!?

god how did that take me ten years