ASMBXT Level Review Thread
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Re: ASMBXT Post Levels Here
Should be a list on the first post of level claims, like we discussed in the other topic.
For now, I'd like to do a beginning/mid-game level, an endgame level, and one or two post-game levels.
For now, I'd like to do a beginning/mid-game level, an endgame level, and one or two post-game levels.
Re: ASMBXT Post Levels Here
At this part, Lakitu's spinies can start to get rather cluttered if you dilly dally even a little bit. It can be rather hard to traverse without taking a hit from a silly mistake. Maybe making the passage a little more wide open and having a larger head room would help.Doctor Shemp wrote:
I'm not sure about this whole reviewing levels thing (since it's my first post), whether I should put everything in spoilers or not or what the deal is. Sorry if I did something wrong!
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Re: ASMBXT Post Levels Here
Anshwo, you didn't do anything wrong. It's better to post in spoliers (since some images make the page longer). Anyway, below is my review.
Level Review: "Oh, No! It's Lakitu!"
Overview: I could see this level being near the end game, as Anshwo did point out. The level wasn't so bad, but it could use some improvements.
Pros:
• The difficulty was pretty high (especially in the 2nd section where you had to dodge the objects thrown by Lakitu and avoid the blaargs).
• The music selected, especially for the 2nd section, was really nice.
Cons:
• There's cutoff in some parts (as Anshwo pointed out pretty well).
• Mixing graphics from SMB1/SMB3 with graphics from SMW just seems unfitting.
• The nets that were posted in the 1st section looked out of place.
• The 1up was very easy to find.
• When completing the level, the three lakitus give a lot of free lives away when they're changed into coins.
Suggestions:
• I'd prefer if you use the SMB3 grass tileset to match with the SMB3 background or change the background to a SMW background.
• Fix the cutoff.
• Replace the nets with either those mushrooms from SMB1 or those riding wooding platforms from SMB3.
• For the second section, I'd prefer you use the SMW cave tileset.
• Remove one of the lakitus (preferably the one that throws bob-ombs since that doesn't add to the difficulty as much).
Additional Comments: There are some cases where some backgrounds can work with tilesets that don't correspond to the actual game it belongs from (because the pallete of the foreground matches with the pallete of the background). This doesn't seem to be the case here, however. You don't necessarily have to change the tileset to match with the appropriate background (I just thought it would look better). But if you think it looks fine, I guess you can leave it (since some people like to mix different tilesets with different backgrounds, such as SMB3 with SMW). Other than that, not a bad job.
Level Review: "Oh, No! It's Lakitu!"
Overview: I could see this level being near the end game, as Anshwo did point out. The level wasn't so bad, but it could use some improvements.
Pros:
• The difficulty was pretty high (especially in the 2nd section where you had to dodge the objects thrown by Lakitu and avoid the blaargs).
• The music selected, especially for the 2nd section, was really nice.
Cons:
• There's cutoff in some parts (as Anshwo pointed out pretty well).
• Mixing graphics from SMB1/SMB3 with graphics from SMW just seems unfitting.
• The nets that were posted in the 1st section looked out of place.
• The 1up was very easy to find.
• When completing the level, the three lakitus give a lot of free lives away when they're changed into coins.
Suggestions:
• I'd prefer if you use the SMB3 grass tileset to match with the SMB3 background or change the background to a SMW background.
• Fix the cutoff.
• Replace the nets with either those mushrooms from SMB1 or those riding wooding platforms from SMB3.
• For the second section, I'd prefer you use the SMW cave tileset.
• Remove one of the lakitus (preferably the one that throws bob-ombs since that doesn't add to the difficulty as much).
Additional Comments: There are some cases where some backgrounds can work with tilesets that don't correspond to the actual game it belongs from (because the pallete of the foreground matches with the pallete of the background). This doesn't seem to be the case here, however. You don't necessarily have to change the tileset to match with the appropriate background (I just thought it would look better). But if you think it looks fine, I guess you can leave it (since some people like to mix different tilesets with different backgrounds, such as SMB3 with SMW). Other than that, not a bad job.
Last edited by m4sterbr0s 11 years ago, edited 1 time in total.
Re: ASMBXT Post Levels Here
I'd like to do two or three levels for this, myself. In SMWCP, I did two endgame levels, but for this...I'll probably end up doing an early-game level and a late-game level and perhaps a mid-game level somewhere between them. I'm first going to kinda' hang back and see what other people make so I'll get an idea of what sort of stuff my levels will be sided with, though.
I'm going to spoiler all of my critique to keep from stretching out the page, images or not.Doctor Shemp wrote:http://www42.zippyshare.com/v/3285903/file.html
raocow wrote:I don't know what it means, but you're screaming at me and I'm used to that.
Re: ASMBXT Post Levels Here
Man, that Lakitu level is HARD. I don't know if I can hang with you guys. :)
General problem, but the sprite for the spinies makes it impossible to tell what direction they are going. This can be a real problem with something like the skull raft, which can make them change direction randomly on slopes. I'm honestly not a fan of the way SMBX handles object collision like that and would usually try to avoid that much interaction, preferring to use Blargs and Paratroupers as obstacles when on a moving object (i.e., stuff that doesn't touch the thing you are riding on).
General problem, but the sprite for the spinies makes it impossible to tell what direction they are going. This can be a real problem with something like the skull raft, which can make them change direction randomly on slopes. I'm honestly not a fan of the way SMBX handles object collision like that and would usually try to avoid that much interaction, preferring to use Blargs and Paratroupers as obstacles when on a moving object (i.e., stuff that doesn't touch the thing you are riding on).
Re: ASMBXT Post Levels Here
The main path is pretty fun. The alternate, I don't have a clue how to get through that without eating a hitXutaWoo wrote:Uh, Where's The Floor?
Re: ASMBXT Post Levels Here
The hint to how to get through the 'secret' exit is in the tree at the end.
Also, you're supposed to be small through the entire thing. Hence why the entrance and the exit have 1-block tall tunnels with spikes on the ceiling.
Re: ASMBXT Post Levels Here
You can slide through while big, even through spikes, if you run, duck, then look left and let go of duck. It's almost impossible to force someone to be small for a trick.XutaWoo wrote: Also, you're supposed to be small through the entire thing. Hence why the entrance and the exit have 1-block tall tunnels with spikes on the ceiling.
Re: ASMBXT Post Levels Here
Oh, huh.
Ah well, that sounds more like an exploit on an engine, and hopefully most people don't know of it.
Ah well, that sounds more like an exploit on an engine, and hopefully most people don't know of it.
Re: ASMBXT Post Levels Here
Well... even if you make yourself small to get into that space without sliding under the spikes, you can still have an item in your reserve box, and use it in the secret area, and then glitch the small pipe on the other end :)
Re: ASMBXT Post Levels Here
Hopefully the players will have enough ~COMMON SENSE~ to either use their reserve item before they get on the platform or after they complete the section, considering, y'know, spike tunnel and the fact you'd have to slide into the pipe if you're not small. :V
Re: ASMBXT Post Levels Here
XutaWoo wrote:Uh, Where's The Floor?
raocow wrote:I don't know what it means, but you're screaming at me and I'm used to that.
Re: ASMBXT Post Levels Here
Welp, I think I'm done here.XutaWoo wrote:~COMMON SENSE~
You can't expect a player to do what you want them to do. They WILL try to break the level. I'm trying to point out a glitch and you are trying to tell me I'm playing the level wrong. That's not how QA testing works.
Good luck.
Edit: sorry, I didn't mean to be so snippy. I know I'm new here and shouldn't make a shitty first impression. But seriously, if I do something the first time, then plenty of players will do it. And what the guy above said about forced hit being kinda a crap move.
Re: ASMBXT Post Levels Here
This much is true.McClain wrote:You can't expect a player to do what you want them to do.
But I can expect a player that, unless we change things and make it so that the gameplay's based around exploits, to try to play normally unless they really feel like messing around with said exploits. Which, in turn, brings the awareness that you may encounter more things that don't exactly work.
Exploits that don't get turned into features are, ultimately, cheats, so one should not expect a normal nor polished results from using them. Just look at the multigrab bug in Super Mario World; not only is the timing incredibly difficult, but the more items you have, the less consistent behavior with pipes becomes.
That said, I severely underestimated the normal sliding distance of the player, anywho, and putting the sign which hinted at the solution to the minipuzzle in an entirely different place, so here's an updated version with the logs before the pipe to that area extended (so now you really have to commit yourself to using the exploit) and moving the sign right to the area.
(technically the link's the same because I use Dropbox but hey)
Re: ASMBXT Post Levels Here
That didn't really fix anything, though, because SMBX has an entirely different exploit where if you duck into a one-tile gap while super, face the opposite direction, then stand, you'll zip through to the other side effortlessly (raocow even demonstrates this in the very first video of STTB and one of the later videos of STTB2 where the glitch is required to reach secret areas).
You should probably tailor the secret area to the possibility of being either big or small, because it's essentially impossible to have a 100% effective power-up filter in this engine without outright killing the player (or having tight, claustrophobic level design that severely hinders movement).
You should probably tailor the secret area to the possibility of being either big or small, because it's essentially impossible to have a 100% effective power-up filter in this engine without outright killing the player (or having tight, claustrophobic level design that severely hinders movement).
raocow wrote:I don't know what it means, but you're screaming at me and I'm used to that.
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Re: ASMBXT Post Levels Here
Shouldn't we try to seperate the actual level submissions from the level reviewing? It would definitely help with oversight. Also, should we make a central place where the currently reviewed levels can be downloaded?
Re: ASMBXT Post Levels Here
i have the feeling you missed the point of the first part of that postMineyl wrote:That didn't really fix anything, though, because SMBX has an entirely different exploit where if you duck into a one-tile gap while super, face the opposite direction, then stand, you'll zip through to the other side effortlessly (raocow even demonstrates this in the very first video of STTB and one of the later videos of STTB2 where the glitch is required to reach secret areas).
You should probably tailor the secret area to the possibility of being either big or small, because it's essentially impossible to have a 100% effective power-up filter in this engine without outright killing the player (or having tight, claustrophobic level design that severely hinders movement).
As McClain demonstrated, the area's still entirely possible while big if you use the same exploit you used to get in while big. Granted, it'd be even more claustrophobic, and it's certainly not intended, but I feel it's like wall jump bug from SMW; authors shouldn't be forced to try and keep people from using it. Granted, this exploit is a lot easier than the wall jump bug, but it's still the same principle: this level's designed for normal players, who may or may not know of exploits.
I did update the level again, though, because the pipe to that area was not properly two-way. Whoops.
Plus, the logs above where slightly modified to make it a bit easier to get to.
Read: I kept bumping into to lower log and screwing up my jump, so I made it so that I can actually reliably make that jump.
Re: ASMBXT Post Levels Here
That would probably be a good idea. This'll get very cluttered very soon, otherwise.LukaRamu wrote:Shouldn't we try to seperate the actual level submissions from the level reviewing? It would definitely help with oversight. Also, should we make a central place where the currently reviewed levels can be downloaded?
Oh no, I get your point! However, it's the job of the designer to realize what tools (whether officially sanctioned or exploits or what-have-you) the player has at his disposal and take the appropriate action to ensure that the level plays as well as it can.XutaWoo wrote:i have the feeling you missed the point of the first part of that post
For example, you know full well in Super Mario World that if you give the player a cape, there is nothing stopping him from flying over entire levels with it, so you take measures to prevent that from happening by creating some sort of deterrent in the air, whether it be a ceiling or obstacles (or taking the easy way out and disabling cape flight altogether).
I wouldn't expect a designer to plan around glitches such as the wall jump (which requires frame-perfect execution), but more well-known and easily-performed exploits such as double-grabbing and p-switch cloning can and should be planned around. The fault does not lie with you if the player experiences some sort of one in a million glitch that is nearly impossible to produce consistently, but otherwise, it's important to do your best to make sure your level still plays adequately to the point that if it's impossible for the player to continue, he or she will feel like it is legitimately his fault and not the game dicking him over. Does that make sense?
As long as the secret path is still doable big or small, though, I suppose it's okay.
raocow wrote:I don't know what it means, but you're screaming at me and I'm used to that.
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Re: ASMBXT Post Levels Here
Ok, here's a few quick thoughts:Here Comes Dracula! wrote:Hi.
So here's a very early draft of a thing.
It's a bit all over the place at this point. There are some bits that I'm not happy with, and others that I'm thinking of just scrapping, but I figured I should get some feedback before taking it any further.
Also, I chucked in a placeholder overworld so you don't have to play it from the editor I guess?
The music is really nice and the aesthetics are great. The level looks really good. The difficulty is off the chain. I know it's for all intents and purposes a
Overall though the whole
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Re: ASMBXT Post Levels Here
I want to make like 2 levels one mid/endgame level and one end/postgame level :D
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Re: ASMBXT Post Levels Here
so we're really doing this? ALrighty then, I'm officially making at least one level.
OH MAN I WONDER WHERE IT WILL RANK DIFFICULTY WISE?!%?!
OH MAN I WONDER WHERE IT WILL RANK DIFFICULTY WISE?!%?!
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Re: ASMBXT Post Levels Here
I too am making at least one level. No idea where it's gonna be difficulty wise, as it's my first time making a level (never even made one in Lunar Magic). As such I'm a little nervous, but will do my best. :)
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Re: ASMBXT Post Levels Here
I'll sure make one or two end-/postgame levels, too (I hope they won't enter the level of the unreasonable, but re-watching the SMWCP-LP, "Rupture in Reality" has inspired me in a sense of unreasonable difficult level design (although it is beatable!).
I'm also compiling the levels with assets for oversight and reviewing purpose, eventually will release a zipped compilation if that's ok with everyone.
Furthermore, are we gonna do something like "making more than 3 levels is discouraged, but not forbidden" to prevent '_L_-ception'??? Asking this here because it has mostly to do with submitting levels.
Looking forward to this!
I'm also compiling the levels with assets for oversight and reviewing purpose, eventually will release a zipped compilation if that's ok with everyone.
Furthermore, are we gonna do something like "making more than 3 levels is discouraged, but not forbidden" to prevent '_L_-ception'??? Asking this here because it has mostly to do with submitting levels.
Looking forward to this!
Re: ASMBXT Post Levels Here
I'm gonna try my hand at making a level for this too! I'm still getting used to the level editor, but I'll do my best!
It'll probably be a fortress-like environment but I can't be sure? I do know for sure that there'll be a boss at the end, at any rate.
It'll probably be a fortress-like environment but I can't be sure? I do know for sure that there'll be a boss at the end, at any rate.
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Re: ASMBXT Post Levels Here
So this is where we post what kind of levels we are making? Very well then; my level is a generic "climb the tower to escape the rising lava" type level, except I'll have the speed of the lava change in accordance with the music in an attempt to make it slightly less generic.