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What are we even doing?

we don't need no edu - I mean, these threads, anymore.
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shdwdrgnix
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Re: What are we even doing?

Post by shdwdrgnix »

I already have a spot planned for the chest, but it would be simple to put a key and keyhole there, unless the chest gets finished, That or I might just put both in anyways, since the chest doesn't feel like a good enough reward for all that.
S.N.N.
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Re: What are we even doing?

Post by S.N.N. »

Slit08 wrote:BTW, I don't think that SMWCP 2 has caught up any near to A2MT.
Sorry to burst your bubble, but all things considered, it has. I wouldn't have cited it for the "more population helps" point if it wasn't.

In regards to the chest, this is really nobody's fault except chdata's of course. It's like that case with VIP 5 where the final level designer just vanished and they were all running around not knowing what to do. Without that code, everyone who had a chest in their level was pretty much thrown into a loop. Whoever suggested actually getting the code from him and finishing it has the right idea - granted, if you don't already know quite a bit of ASM, you'll need to learn it (or try and delegate the job to someone who DOES know some ASM). Problem is, I know from personal experience that picking up something half finished, such as some code in this case, can usually be very messy. You might almost be better off recoding them some scratch if you can't get ahold of him.

Honestly though, I still think some parts of this project were -too- ambitious from the get-go, and that may have been what threw people off. The chest and all of the unique "accessories" you could collect was one of those. Eh.

EDIT: also, as a tip to whoever decides to manage this thing: nag the people working on the project. Seems kind of iffy, I know, but trust me, it works wonders. If people are consistently reminded that they are just as important as person B in helping out with the project, it'll boost their morale. If they're completely forgotten about, they'll lose faith in the project and give up. Give them a reason to take the project seriously, and they'll make it worth your while.
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Argumentable
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Re: What are we even doing?

Post by Argumentable »

Personally, I felt this was too big for its britches from the start
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Diortem
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Re: What are we even doing?

Post by Diortem »

The more I read the more doubts I get about the chest. Who is or how are we going to reach a consencus about this?
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shdwdrgnix
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Re: What are we even doing?

Post by shdwdrgnix »

The general confusion is starting to remind me of Vip 5, except there, they were all done save for the final level, so they just played around with the OW and did a bit of "testing".
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raocow
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Re: What are we even doing?

Post by raocow »

The silly part is I think it got so overambitious because of how long it started before the project started for 'real' ; which is funny because it started really early after asmt was released. But that's the thing, some peeps where all 'oh man what are we going to do for the second game!!' and where hyped so much that it grew this perception of what should be made just for it and it kind of snowballed from there.

Me, I'm fine with just peeps making a bunch of odd levels, and organising them together by difficulty once we get them all. It's kind of how I pictured the whole thing from the start, and still mostly how I 'see' things.
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shdwdrgnix
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Re: What are we even doing?

Post by shdwdrgnix »

Pretty much goes to the point that "we need to have a boss in every level" thing happening right now. By the end we end up confused without a leader, and the hack looks like Brutal mario on roids.
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Re: What are we even doing?

Post by raocow »

Early FoD clearance was kind of... silly. Since then I talked him into calming down there, and I DO believe now things are a lot more reasonable.

Though honestly, I reckon having all the 'sibblings as bosses' and all that, to be kind of unrealistic, and I'm thinking we could use the levels that have bosses as world-ends anyway. It just makes more sense this way.

I've always been against the idea of tons of cutscenes so that furthers things in that direction, if anything.
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Re: What are we even doing?

Post by Slit08 »

S.N.N. wrote: Honestly though, I still think some parts of this project were -too- ambitious from the get-go, and that may have been what threw people off. The chest and all of the unique "accessories" you could collect was one of those. Eh.
Though I do not want to start an argue here, I have to disagree with you on this point. I know that A2MT is very ambitious but it's a lot less strict than SMWCP2. While you don't have chests in your SMWCP levels you still have the three coins. You have to use custom tilesets, custom backgrounds and are not allowed to use bgs from any other games. Everything about SMWCP 2 has to be custom, even the music. Plus it is a lot harsher on difficulty and overall testing.
In A2MT the developers actually have a lot more freedom to develop a level, they personally have in mind and want to create. The levels can be purely vanilla or they can be a DKC stage. It doesn't matter as long as the stage is fun to play and includes 5 paarot coins plus a hidden location for a chest.
So in that sense SMCP 2 would be way more ambitious since it restricts the player and forces you to include many elements like music or graphics that you wouldn't be too fond of to use.
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Re: What are we even doing?

Post by S.N.N. »

I was merely talking in terms of progress, since we already have 65 compositions, a bunch of tilesets, bosses, and levels done - and again, it was merely a citation of the population difference (that is, we actually HAVE people who can do this, whereas the Talkhaus doesn't have as many). We wanted to take a "real" game approach, where the focus is purely on level design as opposed to dumping in aesthetics and/or trying to hide shoddy gameplay behind flashy ASM gimmicks. But yes, I won't get into an argument with you on it. This was simply used to enforce the "more population = faster progress = more likely to find leadership types" point.

On a related note though, I'm actually kind of disappointed by some people saying that there isn't really a capable person here who can lead it all (forget what the exact sentence was, but it's in this thread somewhere). Surely there is someone here who has been following the project from the get-go and who could take it over.
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Re: What are we even doing?

Post by raocow »

It's kind of a false comparition when you consider that we didn't make an effort to create a 'all new music/graphics' policy. Chronium already made a bunch of EXCELLENT original composition, and a few others, but that's about all we can use anyway, since from the very start, we have a 'use anything' policy, and explicit references were actually encouraged in a few places.

But what I really wanted to do here is respond to your second paragraph: the issue I suppose is that the people who where active at the start of the project, and the people who are active NOW are like, two completely different groups of people somehow!

Honestly, as someone who tried to bring attention to this problem for a while now, Dax seems most appropriate (I'm not sure why this clicked NOW, and only now, to be honest). If you're worried about time comitment, Dax, remember that your job would be way way less than ycz: limepie does all the actual gruntwork (though someone needs to learn him how to apply patches - it bothers me that the base rom doesn't have a bunch of our patches, like the p-switch music removal and the death counter). There's a round of PM that always go with the 'reminder' video - if you think more needs to be done than that, it's a judgement call.
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Slit08
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Re: What are we even doing?

Post by Slit08 »

Thanks for your honest answer, S N N.

But seriously guys, I don't like the direction this thread takes.
Honestly, I don't see ANY problems with A2MT as of now. Bear in mind that there were some levels that have been cleared within the last months. And most of them are VERY good. Just do not over-complicate things. Also do not change basic things like the siblings that were discussed long time ago in just one day.
It's just a fangame. People don't get paid for their work. They work on this, because they have fun doing so, because they are willing to participate at a community project. Don't be too harsh. :)
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Re: What are we even doing?

Post by raocow »

Well, I mean, sure, but is there anyone that started working on a sibling boss that hasn't flaked out or (more likely) just kind of disapeared?
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Slit08
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Re: What are we even doing?

Post by Slit08 »

That's a point there. But if they disappear some new will come up and be willing working on those.
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Re: What are we even doing?

Post by limepie20 »

oh man too much too read.

Well, right now Chibikko is working on the chest (and later he may compile patches) so we don't need to worry about that (unless he quits). I also like the idea of going back in the testing thread and finding old levels and "fixing them". era64 pops up in my head first because I liked his level and he just says "take my level its crap anyway".

Also, chdata is not coming back. I've talked to him and he's really out of it.
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Re: What are we even doing?

Post by raocow »

Chibikko still exists? Wow.

I wouldn't be mad at chdata if he at least released what he did, so SOMETHING could come out of it, but it's nice to know the chests are currently being handled.
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Re: What are we even doing?

Post by Argumentable »

Slit08 wrote: Honestly, I don't see ANY problems with A2MT as of now.
Hahaha, oh man
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Re: What are we even doing?

Post by kil3 »

I was the one who originally pushed for this whole chest idea so I would be willing to create the chest system eventually if this project ever gets anywhere near where I think it has a chance of being finished. I didn't want to say anything because I knew it would guarantee that chdata or someone else would not ever bother finishing their chests and would end up assuming I would do it. I'm still hoping chibikko does it because I don't want to relearn SMW stuff.
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Re: What are we even doing?

Post by raocow »

Well, if anything that convinces me, for now, not to just drop that idea for ever so that's good.

Speaking of chdata, did he ever gave anyone those 'independant dragon coins' we're supposed to be using?
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limepie20
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Re: What are we even doing?

Post by limepie20 »

I don't have it...
I think that patch might've even been finished. I'll see if I can get that from him.
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Re: What are we even doing?

Post by DaxterSpeed »

S.N.N. kinda convinced me that I'm not the right person to lead this project. To begin with. I can't focus on one project at a time, but I also haven't followed this project too great. It's only thanks to some users and an underlying interest that I decided to do this.

And I never proposed to demote limepie, he's doing a great job already. Nor did I say that we should only have one person to do it all, I'm 100% convinced that we need a capable person to lead this project, to be "annoying" and motivate not only contributors but also the other managers.

To continue on the more "directly related to the project" discussion:
It seems we're "fine" on the ASM part, at least when it comes to what's needed for the level designers and the already designed levels. I'm still unsure about the plot, I might start a new thread where we can create a good rough outline of what we've already "figured out". I think I'm gonna throw together a few rough outlines of the new thread organization tomorrow.

I should probably update this thread's first post with some project outlines too so we have those down too. There might be stuff we're missing for this project that we don't know of, or stuff we have that we should actually use (I'm not recommending forcing anything here, but we might have awesome stuff lying around).
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Chdata
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Re: What the fuck Chdata

Post by Chdata »

If you want my MSN, I log into it almost every day.
I will not add just anyone.

I also frequently pay attention to Youtube pms.

As for the chest, I'm just not sure if the graphical glitch can be fixed.

If I still have the files I'll upload them.

Regarding yoshi coins: If I still have the files I'll upload them.
With instructions =p
Infact it was uploaded a long time ago but the link is likely buried in posts.

Also I have released most of my stuff to a few select people. Even though I was kinda sure it'd be unlikely that they'd pick up on it. (Sent chests to Chibikko, forget what I did with yoshi coin thing, sent compiled patch to all blues.)

At first I basically only released what was most important and that I thought would actually get done/was done. Basically, only the compilation patch to all the other blues.

My boss work (only Pily has anything done) is unreleased.

Edit: I read through this a bit more fully now... I figured it would come to this. This was depressing to read. Before I left I said I'd be the biggest (am the biggest) disappointment ever and would screw up major stuff in A2MT and look now, it's true..

The only things I feel inclined to do IF I ever do ASM again are make those bamboo bunny sprites for Cup since he even ripped good GFX for it and tried to himself (I doubt I'll really make them, sorry), and get the yoshi coins up. I don't know what to say about the chests really, I remember spending a long time trying to get the bug fixed, only to get confused and no help asking on #serioushax.

I've gotten a new computer, however not all of my files have been transfered, I only have a fraction of my smw files now. The old computer is in storage now.

I haven't done any ASM in maybe a year now.

Nor do I watch raocow or any LP's anymore. I thought things were going just swell without me with his latest A2MT update video though. Looks like I was right and wrong at the same time. Right that major stuff is screwed up and wrong that things are going swell.

I also worry about the compilation patch, has anyone tested it while I was gone? I feel like something there's screwed up too considering I made it and screwed up alot for A2MT already.

I did try to prevent any further damage by mention (before I left) that people should just drop the whole chest idea. Doesn't seem to have work, didn't think it would anyways since they were already in alot of levels everywhere.

I fuckeddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddd everything up. I usually hate swearing too. Disappointed raocow, hundreds of A2MT contributors, THOUSANDS of raocow's fans.

(Ok everything is an exaggeration but a very big part of the project still.)

I have no clue why I still do anything with youtube.com/calleoca

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ProfessorDemetri
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Re: What are we even doing?

Post by ProfessorDemetri »

Chdata:
I don't think taking on all the blame and kinda feeling sorry for yourself is realistic. Granted, there was alot of responsibility put onto you, and you had put alot of work into this project, and it was unrealistic to think that someone could do all of it and remain in this project. But it wasn't your fault that this project has taken the turn that it has.

It's everyone's fault.
Granted, some have done more then others, but in the end, yeah, it feels like because there wasn't any actually appointed management, the mods kinda just dwindled off and disappeared. I don't get that... how someone that just put so much work, man hours, and creative energy into it, can just go "*flips table* I'M OUT!".

Ontopic:
We need someone that's here most of the time, that checks regularly and is open to talking to people on a regular, consistant basis. And this comes into real lifey time, working around schedules and junk. I mean, I for one have alot of time, but the only time I'm awake is during the night as I work graveyard shifts. I'm usually here, but not when anyone else is lol. Sucks man. Whatever. The idea still stands that we need someone that can be here most of the time. Or a few people. I mean we could have co-management... Like someone that's here for some days out of the week, and another person that's here for the other days. Or something... lol

The chests:
If the chests don't get finished with the ASM or whatever, then we can either, take them out and put a 3up moon (whatever it's going to be), or either, use cut scenes to still illustrate items that we get.. might be neat. And might be cheesey. :lol:
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Re: What are we even doing?

Post by limepie20 »

Chdata:
None of us blues actually still have the patch compilation (I know...). I don't know what we can do about that I basically just told Chibikko a couple patches that should be compiled.

Also, I understand something now. If I told someone to update their level and they were just like "meh", I would pretty much say okay.. I guess I'll take your level. And if someone I liked was going to lose their level, I would just take it and hope they came back. I'm gonna try out that nagging thing.
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Re: What are we even doing?

Post by ProfessorDemetri »

So that's what we're doing then?
Is finishing up some of the previously lost levels?
...WHOA LOST LEVELS...
Just got a shock of genius... we could make a world specifically for all these lost levels, and have it be like... a lost place in the ship for demo to explore in...
The Lost World (if you will?) lol
It was just a neat idea.
But I'd be willing to take on one of these forgotten levels, and polishing it up, and finishing it.
Does that basically mean we need to go back in the testing thread, do some ips patches, and pick one we liked? lol :lol:
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