(shouting)

A2MT Progression?

we don't need no edu - I mean, these threads, anymore.
User avatar
Argumentable
the biggest shit
Posts: 690
Joined: 14 years ago
Location: A butthole
Contact:
https://argu.talkhaus.com/

Re: A2MT Progression?

Post by Argumentable »

raocow wrote:
cheez8 wrote:As one of the people clogging up a level spot without actually showing much progress, I would like to apologize. I've gone way too long without showing anything, even though I have a level that's nearly finished, and the only reason I haven't even shown anything in the Testing thread is mainly because I haven't added any custom graphics yet... which I still cannot make properly to save my life. I'm just wondering, in this situation, should I put something in the testing thread regardless, just to prove I have been making progress and to get feedback on the level design?
We've said again and again that vanilla graphics are fine.

What...

Ugh.
Speaking strictly as someone who doesn't pay attention to the project and only looks at the odd thread when I'm bored, I, too, was under the impression that every level had to be a "unique butterfly" so to speak.

If you guys are desperate for a filler level or two, I could probably churn something short out.


Edit:
kil3 wrote:
I am going to ban these fucking ponies
I'm on Youtube andTwitter and Discord so say hi to me on there cause I don't really post here also I have sigs off so I can make my sig as ugly as I want and it won't bother me this is my sig btw
User avatar
Chdata
Posts: 11
Joined: 14 years ago
Location: Computer Chair

Re: A2MT Progression?

Post by Chdata »

I agree with banning ponies /offtopic
Image
Trouble with a capital COW.

<math>\tan{A}\sin{N}</math>
Ranylyn
Posts: 0
Joined: 14 years ago

Re: A2MT Progression?

Post by Ranylyn »

As a longtime raocow fan and lover of ASMT, and total noob romhacker:

I'm not gonna lie. It was ASMT that really got me wanting to make my own romhacks. I think that after ASMT, a lot of people who wouldn't have normally been were all Gung-Ho, which as we all know, can only last so long.

A quality level can't be made in a day. You need "artistic spacing." The second you finish something, you think "Aww man, this is great!" but is it really? You need to take two steps back, give it a little time, and playtest it a few days later. Does it still hold up after the euphoria of completion fades? Spot any flaws you didn't see before? I think this level of dedication to the project, to take a step back when needed, is something that can't be expected from everyone, especially those who will lose interest quickly.

And this is exactly why I didn't signup for A2MT. I know my own faults, and among them are procrastination and attention span. If I don't get interested reviewers to motivate me, I let up since it feels like no one cares (regardless of what it is, from writing to art.) However, if situations are dire for levels, I could try to get a few empty husks out (I have good ideas, just no motivation to make them all) that people could fine-tune, put enemies in, and so on.


Edit: Oh yeah, and on the topic of leadership, does it really matter who does it? I mean, sure, it has to be someone heavily involved in the project, but when people think leaders, they think "charisma" and charisma is hard to express via forum posts, so yeah, just throwing that out there for anyone....
When in doubt, call it a thing. That's how raocow does it. And it works for me.
tatanga
Posts: 0
Joined: 14 years ago
Location: Sarasaland

Re: A2MT Progression?

Post by tatanga »

S.N.N. wrote:Another matter, which I believe I mentioned before, is that many of the people who worked on ASMT either left or have no interest in this project. That is something that can't be controlled, and it's really unfortunate. In fact, it's one of the main reasons why I was worried this project wouldn't get far from the start, and it is starting to be confirmed. It's great that new blood is trying to be pulled into the scene, but these new people just don't know what's going on...
Just read this thread and couldn't help commenting on this. One reason why I didn't really have much motivation for this second project and ended up not doing a level for it was because of the huge amount of new hackers that suddenly appeared, and the extremely low quantity of other returning designers from the original. It just doesn't have the same feel to it as the original did, and I didn't really agree with some of the new guidelines and regulations being enforced.
User avatar
Argumentable
the biggest shit
Posts: 690
Joined: 14 years ago
Location: A butthole
Contact:
https://argu.talkhaus.com/

Re: A2MT Progression?

Post by Argumentable »

Tatanga lets make our own tiny collab hack with you and me. I need more fuel for my own when it inevitably falls.
I'm on Youtube andTwitter and Discord so say hi to me on there cause I don't really post here also I have sigs off so I can make my sig as ugly as I want and it won't bother me this is my sig btw
User avatar
ProfessorDemetri
Posts: 0
Joined: 14 years ago
Location: BC, Canada

Re: A2MT Progression?

Post by ProfessorDemetri »

Argumentable wrote:
I am going to ban these fucking ponies
LOLOLOlolasoldifjhaoldsihf
Censorship? On a forum? CRAZY TALK!
Just cuz something annoys you, and lemme tell ya, it annoys me too, doesn't mean it should be banned just for being annoying lol Just ask him to stop.... :cry:
Image
Image
If you need help with anything, contact me on my skype: Demekun
User avatar
raocow
the death of the incredible huge
Posts: 4075
Joined: 14 years ago
Location: maybe the Wizards are the most complex, and the sales guys are up their daily
https://raocow.talkhaus.com/

Re: A2MT Progression?

Post by raocow »

All those levels used to be taken because that was the demand at the time - we had more people wanting to do levels than levels were actually available.

Since then we did trim down the numbers, with more level 'spots' devoted to utility things - the only reason why all the spots are taken as is is simply because some people wanted them. The reason why the thing is still 'in motion' is because there's at least a good few of those people who do want to finish their levels. We'll see what happens when we get inforced deadlines once the manager site is available once more.
the chillaxest of dragonsImage
Image
Image
User avatar
ProfessorDemetri
Posts: 0
Joined: 14 years ago
Location: BC, Canada

Re: A2MT Progression?

Post by ProfessorDemetri »

Oh good.
We're getting inforced deadlines? Finally. :lol:
Honestly, that makes me feel really alot better, because that means this isn't dieing, this means it'll continue to go along, and get done. Good.
Image
Image
If you need help with anything, contact me on my skype: Demekun
Maladrace
Posts: 0
Joined: 14 years ago

Re: A2MT Progression?

Post by Maladrace »

I don't think enforced deadlines are the problem here. Enforcing deadlines won't get the project up on it's feet it will just change what it looks like. Instead of having many levels taken that no one will work on we'll just have many levels that aren't taken at all, and if that is your only intention there is a much easier way to do that. that is to say even with enforced deadlines it won't make a difference if you don't fix the major problem motivation. If the problem of motivation was fixed enforced deadlines would be unneccessary. If people want to work on their level that is to say are motivated to work then a deadline wouldn't be needed to get their level finished.


Spoilered for size
There are a few ways to increase motivation but for A2mt and I think that easiest one would be a show of progress, of course to increase motivation is to increase progress and to increase progress is to increase motivation. So how do we increase motivation when next to nothing is getting done? I believe A2mt needs a refresh; in a sense that it needs to be flitered through and take out what is important and create anew. The way I can see this happening is clearing the Level list, the Music list, the Map16, ect. I would assume it easy to see and place back in the lists what is already completed and inserted in the A2mt rom already, the rest can be slowly reposted by the individuals who are still working on the A2mt project and have claimed them. I would also assume that the know what they have claimed thus it would not be a horrific ordeal.

The refresh would have to create a new area on the forum for A2mt to start up separate from this one, and the structure would have to be vastly improved on.

the general stucture of the forums should be like

Board index < Collaboration extravaganza < A2mt
having subforums for; 'General Discussion', 'Sign-ups', 'Level Submissions', 'Graphics and ASM', 'Help and Requests', and 'Archives'

of course this is just preliminary look at what it might be like.

After clearing out the levels that aren't being worked on level sign-ups would have to open again. I believe an important factor to have before starting level sign-ups should be a grasp of what the A2mt worlds will be comprised of, not so much a finished world map as a estimate of how many stages will be present in each world and the general theme of them (I believe themes were discussed before and it would be helpful if it was decided upon and posted in the level sign-ups themselves) such as

World 1 - (theme) - (amount of levels)
World 2 - (theme) - (amount of levels)

and so forth

as far as my understanding of the A2mt map goes I believe it would be easier to estimate the amount of levels per world in groups such as

World 0 : (amount of levels)
World 1 - 4 : (amount of levels)
World 5 - 8 : (amount of levels)
World 9 : (amount of levels)
World 10 : (amount of levels)
World 11 : (amount of levels)

with each group having an average amount of levels based on what it is

World 0 = hub
World 1 - 4 = Tier 1 worlds
World 5 - 8 = Tier 2 worlds
World 9 = Last world
World 10 = Star world
World 11 = Bonus world

After that is established the level sign-ups should be divided up by worlds with therefore the only restricting factors would be theme and difficulty, such as World 1 sign-ups, World 2 sign-ups, ect. Sign-ups for world 1 through 8 would be set up immeduately with worlds 0 and 9-11 opening at a later date. Each world should have it's own level submission thread as well to keep the amount of busy traffic in each thread to a minimum and allow each individual level to be looked at without a plethora of posts threatening to overshadow it.

After a level have been approved by a manager/senior member it should be posted in the a final level submission thread (by the person who approved it) to be looked at by other managers/senior members to give it a final ok before it is put into the A2mt rom. The final level submission thread should only include managers and senior members. This is to save time by creating a place in which managers and senior members can look at a levels before they are inserted without having to look through each thread.

Music sign-ups should be a different thread itself with the rule being that if your want a music slot you must specify the name and version the song you are going to use (ie: if the song you want to use is already inserted but the version you are going to use is composed differently) this is to make it easier to 'share' music or to pick a song for your level from the music that is already being used in the game.

ExGfx sign-ups and Map16 sign-ups are fine the way they have been handled, but should be moved out of the level/music sign-ups

what is also necessary is a list of people working on A2mt as of now. I'd suggest the people working on the project to all PM a single person with information including

1. They are working on the project
2. how much average time they have to work on it
3. if they are able/have enough time to help newcomers
4. what they can help newcomers with

the results of the last 2 should be taken into account and a thread should be created to inform newcomers who they can ask for help for certain requests/problems. hopefully this will stimulate people to ask for help when they get stuck instead of giving up.

It would also be helpful to PM changes in schedules when changes give a person time to help others or remove time, and edit the post accordingly. This mass PMing just be done about every 3 months or so to keep it up to date.

I believe that a fresh start of the the A2mt forums with a more newcomer style structure can help motivate the people still working on the project and inspire more people not involved with the project to join it while making it easier to show progress in each individual area. A forum refresh would show that the project is still live and is very noticeable to people outside of the project.

This project is a collab, however since it started it has felt like it's just a lot of individuals signing up for levels working on them alone then submitting them and I think that is a waste so A2mt should work harder at trying to get people to work together that is why it needs a user/newcomer friendly structure and I just don't think it has that right now.
This is just one suggestion that needs to be polished up a bit, I'll probably try to work on it or think of more/different solutions later.
User avatar
raocow
the death of the incredible huge
Posts: 4075
Joined: 14 years ago
Location: maybe the Wizards are the most complex, and the sales guys are up their daily
https://raocow.talkhaus.com/

Re: A2MT Progression?

Post by raocow »

We've tried splitting the forum before and it's basically one of the main things that just destroyed the project momemtum. I haven't read all of your spoilered text thought because it's hella run-on sentences.
the chillaxest of dragonsImage
Image
Image
limepie20
Posts: 0
Joined: 14 years ago
Location: Doesn't Matter

Re: A2MT Progression?

Post by limepie20 »

I disagree with a lot of those things.

First, you said we don't need enforced deadlines and said we needed to "refresh" the project by making everyone lose their levels and exfx/music slots. I can see where you were going with that but it basically works the same as an enforced deadline except a lot more inefficient. Also, we don't need split forums, raocow just mentioned that. I don't agree with a new signups system. I think it's fine the way it is; it's simple and functional. What's the point of saying what song you will use if when you signup for a music slot and why does it need its own thread? For me, that would be pretty discouraging. Also, etc.

Edit: oh yeah and why should the people working on levels send pms about their level? That's what the testing thread is for.
Maladrace
Posts: 0
Joined: 14 years ago

Re: A2MT Progression?

Post by Maladrace »

oh, sorry I shouldn't have posted. sorry for wasting your time. :oops:
User avatar
raocow
the death of the incredible huge
Posts: 4075
Joined: 14 years ago
Location: maybe the Wizards are the most complex, and the sales guys are up their daily
https://raocow.talkhaus.com/

Re: A2MT Progression?

Post by raocow »

Don't appologize, you didn't know better, but yeah, a lot of your suggestions are things we DID try and it kind of hyper-backfired, so it's somewhat of a sensitive subject, haha!

And yeah, I'm not sure how a pure reset would work considering most people, allegedly, are 'almost done' and just need a big ol' kick in the pants.
the chillaxest of dragonsImage
Image
Image
Maladrace
Posts: 0
Joined: 14 years ago

Re: A2MT Progression?

Post by Maladrace »

limepie20 wrote: What's the point of saying what song you will use if when you signup for a music slot and why does it need its own thread?
I suppose it doesn't need it's own thread. But I wanted to say the name of the song used because when I think of people signing up for a music slot I would assume that have an idea of what song they want, not just "oh I want some cool music lets just take a slot."

The point was to minimize the amount of people taking slots for music that other people are going to have as well. And to let people who don't know what music they want to look at the slots other people have taken and see if they want to use a song already inserted. As opposed to just having 80 music slots just say taken without any information and not having any slots left.
limepie20 wrote: oh yeah and why should the people working on levels send pms about their level? That's what the testing thread is for.
??? I never said anything about that. maybe I wrote it wrong?

I said it would be nice if there was a post that listed everyone who is currently working on A2mt and who you could go to if you needed help in a specific area, and I suggested PMs to give that information to a single person. Then they could post it.

for instance I have no idea at all the amount of people working on this project right now or even the amount of people who have stopped, but from the looks of raocow's post it sounds like everyone is still working on it they just don't have that last shove. I'm just being kinda skeptical and wouldn't be suprised if only about 20 some or less people were still working on this.

And for the help like if you want a custom sprite or some ASM for your gimmick and you don't know how to make it would help to know who in that field of expertise you can ask and who isn't too busy.
kil3
Posts: 0
Joined: 13 years ago

Re: A2MT Progression?

Post by kil3 »

Maladrace wrote: And for the help like if you want a custom sprite or some ASM for your gimmick and you don't know how to make it would help to know who in that field of expertise you can ask and who isn't too busy.
there is a thread for that very thing
limepie20
Posts: 0
Joined: 14 years ago
Location: Doesn't Matter

Re: A2MT Progression?

Post by limepie20 »

Maladrace wrote:oh, sorry I shouldn't have posted. sorry for wasting your time. :oops:
Haha, sorry I didn't mean it like that!

About a list of people working on this - there is a wiki with info of everything but, unfortunately, it's not up right now. It'll get fixed soon, though. And the reason I don't like the idea of having to say what music you are using is:
1) It's inconvenient for the person if they just want a music slot and want to figure all that out later and maybe test different songs.
2) Really, the information is insignificant and won't really effect the project. Even if it did, the petson's opinion could change and so the music they use could change.
S.N.N.
Posts: 561
Joined: 14 years ago
Location: Ontario, Canada

Re: A2MT Progression?

Post by S.N.N. »

raocow wrote:are 'almost done' and just need a big ol' kick in the pants.
From personal experience, I can guarantee at least 50% of the people who say they're 'almost done' have barely started. A good motivator would certainly be these enforced deadlines though (and it'll really separate those who say "screw it" and quit from those who are devoted and want to continue). As hard as it may be, you guys may want to actually consider "banning" certain people from partaking in the project - namely, those who can't meet the deadlines. While handling SMWCP, I noticed that some people dropped their levels, and then immediately asked for one again when the next batch started, so it's pretty clear that letting them back in would be a waste of time.
limepie20
Posts: 0
Joined: 14 years ago
Location: Doesn't Matter

Re: A2MT Progression?

Post by limepie20 »

S.N.N. wrote:you guys may want to actually consider "banning" certain people from partaking in the project - namely, those who can't meet the deadlines.
This actually sounds like a good idea.
User avatar
Chdata
Posts: 11
Joined: 14 years ago
Location: Computer Chair

Re: A2MT Progression?

Post by Chdata »

I should definitely be banned..
Image
Trouble with a capital COW.

<math>\tan{A}\sin{N}</math>
User avatar
raocow
the death of the incredible huge
Posts: 4075
Joined: 14 years ago
Location: maybe the Wizards are the most complex, and the sales guys are up their daily
https://raocow.talkhaus.com/

Re: A2MT Progression?

Post by raocow »

This is what you're going to do, chdata.

Now, for your level I know you've created a bunch of unique sprites. And I know you've asked for cup's help. So what you're going to do, is tell cup I told you that he's now in charge of your level, and to take what you did and make a nice level out of it.

Your intentions are in the right place, you're just unfocused for the moment!

Also finish that chest dang it!
the chillaxest of dragonsImage
Image
Image
User avatar
Argumentable
the biggest shit
Posts: 690
Joined: 14 years ago
Location: A butthole
Contact:
https://argu.talkhaus.com/

Re: A2MT Progression?

Post by Argumentable »

Ok I've banned chdata. I'll unban him when a2mt is finished. Let me know who else you want to add to the list.
I'm on Youtube andTwitter and Discord so say hi to me on there cause I don't really post here also I have sigs off so I can make my sig as ugly as I want and it won't bother me this is my sig btw
User avatar
ProfessorDemetri
Posts: 0
Joined: 14 years ago
Location: BC, Canada

Re: A2MT Progression?

Post by ProfessorDemetri »

Okay, with chdata banned, who's the manager of A2MT?
Because wasn't that one of the problems? A lack of clear leadership?
...I think banning people is a step backwards. Granted, maybe just don't give them levels, but to ban them? Seriously? Why?
That means they can give input about levels, and discuss ideas.
Image
Image
If you need help with anything, contact me on my skype: Demekun
limepie20
Posts: 0
Joined: 14 years ago
Location: Doesn't Matter

Re: A2MT Progression?

Post by limepie20 »

It's a joke. Chdata isn't actually banned and that's what snn meant by banning, don't give them another level.
User avatar
Tails_155
May be dead.
Posts: 23
Joined: 14 years ago
First name: Kit/Tails
Pronouns: he/him/his
Location: The Moon or Something.

Re: A2MT Progression?

Post by Tails_155 »

I am the only person inserting (as per suggestion of SNN) so I guess I'm leading.
I'm member number 499 (⬤)∀(⬤)
User avatar
Chdata
Posts: 11
Joined: 14 years ago
Location: Computer Chair

Re: A2MT Progression?

Post by Chdata »

raocow wrote:This is what you're going to do, chdata.

Now, for your level I know you've created a bunch of unique sprites. And I know you've asked for cup's help. So what you're going to do, is tell cup I told you that he's now in charge of your level, and to take what you did and make a nice level out of it.

Your intentions are in the right place, you're just unfocused for the moment!

Also finish that chest dang it!
I created a bunch of sprites a long time ago for no reason, and decided to put them in a level for A2MT which I've dropped twice now.
Eventually, Cup requested permission to use the sprites from me, we're not really even working on the level together other than me fufilling requests. I don't recall asking Cup for help on anything other than random Japanese translation stuff.
He's already done some really nice work with the sprites. Next on my agenda is two more (technically 4 but the yin-yang orbs are difficult, I don't know if they'd be done in a good time frame.) sprites but I'm disheartened (is that word?) from SMW hacking lately.
(Cup: I have done a small thing about those bunnies but didn't fully get into it yet.)
If you want me to give him that thing I made (which I don't care about anymore, just haven't bothered to delete it), I guess I will, but only when I finish his request.

After said things, another major thing I need to possibly reorganize are A2MT's patches. Then the chest, there's one bug I've tried fixing long ago, but I will try again... Otherwise it IS finished, other than integrating different messages and making alot of exgfx files for gfx00, not to mention ripping the gfx into .bins (which I started doing long ago, but I forget if it's finished or what state I left it in.)
And after that, bosses.


I used to check this forum every day, read every thread. Now I come every few days and read some of the threads.
I'm trying not to bail out on you guys completely...
Image
Trouble with a capital COW.

<math>\tan{A}\sin{N}</math>
Locked