a2mt: where are we at?
- Tails_155
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Re: a2mt: where are we at?
I have a really bizarre idea, I'll talk to a couple people about it, but I have another idea, I'll propose it later if it doesn't seem too... cheap? I'unno...
For now though, Cup's idea seems good if we can come to a conclusion for it.
For now though, Cup's idea seems good if we can come to a conclusion for it.
I'm member number 499 (⬤)∀(⬤)
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Re: a2mt: where are we at?
Generally on-topic reply to above posters, first post and thread title.
The biggest problem with A2MT, apart from it whole being on another forum that's not as big as SMWC or the Vip forums, is that the whole game is trying to have a story, while it doesn't. And levels should somehow make sense, well, why they don't have to. But don't forget to add a cutscene, and a treasure, and 5 parrot coins, and a custscene to those levels! And those other darn things only SMW2 YI would force you to add!
Basically, what I'm trying to say is that A2MT in it's current state is horrible dysfunctional mess. You guys / We can't just decide on a story while we're trying to hack. And those hackers should have unlimited power once they get a chance to make their levels. The reason VIP series is know as a good collab series is not because it has tons of story, lots of custom blocks, thought through story or amazing graphics. But because the actual hackers making levels could pretty much go wild, as long as the level was playable.
Now, we want to keep a standard, and that makes sense. But the problem is that the standard problem was taken care of by the clearing process, not by the testing and development thread, not by the once a week update. Somehow, the level quality bar over our own heads, making this project move at snail-speed.
What I'm trying to say, is that A2MT is in a state were a re-boot should be considered, and I'd be amazed if this current system was able to produce a playable hack.
/DaxterSpeed, out
The biggest problem with A2MT, apart from it whole being on another forum that's not as big as SMWC or the Vip forums, is that the whole game is trying to have a story, while it doesn't. And levels should somehow make sense, well, why they don't have to. But don't forget to add a cutscene, and a treasure, and 5 parrot coins, and a custscene to those levels! And those other darn things only SMW2 YI would force you to add!
Basically, what I'm trying to say is that A2MT in it's current state is horrible dysfunctional mess. You guys / We can't just decide on a story while we're trying to hack. And those hackers should have unlimited power once they get a chance to make their levels. The reason VIP series is know as a good collab series is not because it has tons of story, lots of custom blocks, thought through story or amazing graphics. But because the actual hackers making levels could pretty much go wild, as long as the level was playable.
Now, we want to keep a standard, and that makes sense. But the problem is that the standard problem was taken care of by the clearing process, not by the testing and development thread, not by the once a week update. Somehow, the level quality bar over our own heads, making this project move at snail-speed.
What I'm trying to say, is that A2MT is in a state were a re-boot should be considered, and I'd be amazed if this current system was able to produce a playable hack.
/DaxterSpeed, out
- raocow
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Re: a2mt: where are we at?
All I want is for peeps to make a level, and to add a space for a secret thing in it. I honestly don't care about the story at all at this point and I've said again and again that people should design their levels with freedom in mind.
Cutscenes and all that, that the plot people wnat, are things that would come later, much later, when the levels are actually done and finished. It's just that by talking about them so early on, I can see how it needlessly muddle things.
In other words, I don't consider anything that the 'plot' brings out, as of now in the project, as important in the slightest. Ditto for the overworld design - it's there just to give an idea, so people don't worry about it. It's not important for now. It shouldn't be thought about.
With that in mind, I'm not sure what a 'reboot' would even MEAN.
However, I'm starting to agree that this forum itself is too complex, we could weed out a lot of fluff and have everything on one page again.
Cutscenes and all that, that the plot people wnat, are things that would come later, much later, when the levels are actually done and finished. It's just that by talking about them so early on, I can see how it needlessly muddle things.
In other words, I don't consider anything that the 'plot' brings out, as of now in the project, as important in the slightest. Ditto for the overworld design - it's there just to give an idea, so people don't worry about it. It's not important for now. It shouldn't be thought about.
With that in mind, I'm not sure what a 'reboot' would even MEAN.
However, I'm starting to agree that this forum itself is too complex, we could weed out a lot of fluff and have everything on one page again.
the chillaxest of dragons
Re: a2mt: where are we at?
I don't have a problem with that. We need to keep the graveyard though (or whatever it's called).
oh the left-overs.
oh the left-overs.
- raocow
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Re: a2mt: where are we at?
you know what, screw it, I'm bringing back all the topics in the main page, this doesn't make a whole lot of sense, the way things are.
the chillaxest of dragons
- raocow
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Re: a2mt: where are we at?
There. Anything that would matter should stay on the first page anyway. If any sticky needs to be de-stickied, or vice versa, just tell me.
the chillaxest of dragons
Re: a2mt: where are we at?
as you can clearly see, there hasn't been any development in the plot thread for many months so stop complaining about it restricting your hacking. We just got a very basic outline of the plot and that's it.
And you know what, I think I'm not going to do anything for many more months to come. Not because of these posts, but more of a combination of lack of interest, getting tired of always the same discussions and just not wanting to.
So, I will keep watching and if anyone else has ideas, I'd love to comment on that and even work something out, but I'm not taking any initiative.
I do might ending up testing some more levels again one day.
And you know what, I think I'm not going to do anything for many more months to come. Not because of these posts, but more of a combination of lack of interest, getting tired of always the same discussions and just not wanting to.
So, I will keep watching and if anyone else has ideas, I'd love to comment on that and even work something out, but I'm not taking any initiative.
I do might ending up testing some more levels again one day.
Re: a2mt: where are we at?
I gotta disagree with DaxterSpeed here, I mean, all level designers are having complete freedom to make whatever they want.
There just have to be 5 parrot coins (which is pretty much standard) and one place for a treasure chest, which is not very restricting.
So, I don't think the project needs a re-boot, and I think the cause for this being at snail-speed is that people don't work on their levels because of lack of free time/lazyness... I am not excoriating anything, It's just unfortunate.
And about the plot,
I don't think every level has to have a cutscene and fit into the plot and nobody ever said that at all
but we do have a good outline so far and we will have the hack tell a story in the end (which WON'T clash with the levels).
The only problem with the plot is that we didn't make any part of that official or final yet and that 80 people working on a hack can't decide on anything in that direction when everyone has his own suggestions and there is no way to find anything in this forum that has already been settled.
So, let's round up all the ideas we've had about the plot already and then we need some decisions
How about we start a completely new plot thread, take the three points of the OP in the plot thread (the only confirmed thing we have) as base and then everyone who seriously has something for the MAIN plot to contribute can bring forth his ideas again and kilon processes it.
There just have to be 5 parrot coins (which is pretty much standard) and one place for a treasure chest, which is not very restricting.
So, I don't think the project needs a re-boot, and I think the cause for this being at snail-speed is that people don't work on their levels because of lack of free time/lazyness... I am not excoriating anything, It's just unfortunate.
And about the plot,
I don't think every level has to have a cutscene and fit into the plot and nobody ever said that at all
but we do have a good outline so far and we will have the hack tell a story in the end (which WON'T clash with the levels).
The only problem with the plot is that we didn't make any part of that official or final yet and that 80 people working on a hack can't decide on anything in that direction when everyone has his own suggestions and there is no way to find anything in this forum that has already been settled.
So, let's round up all the ideas we've had about the plot already and then we need some decisions
How about we start a completely new plot thread, take the three points of the OP in the plot thread (the only confirmed thing we have) as base and then everyone who seriously has something for the MAIN plot to contribute can bring forth his ideas again and kilon processes it.
Re: a2mt: where are we at?
I don't think it's time to work on the plot to this extent yet.
Re: a2mt: where are we at?
Okay, we can just delay it, but then nobody should complain about this going at snail speed
- AUS
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Re: a2mt: where are we at?
Delay what? There isn't even a deadline yet, or anything resembling one.
"oh no my best friend was replaced by a evil demon shadow monster"
"argh i am the evil shadow monster demon shadow"
Vip is pronounced "Beep"
nostalgic realtime nitroid let's play playlist
Re: a2mt: where are we at?
Addendum to the rules sticky:
But lastly, GO WILD. Don't let these limits limit your level ideas! Make do!
But lastly, GO WILD. Don't let these limits limit your level ideas! Make do!
Trouble with a capital COW.
<math>\tan{A}\sin{N}</math>
Re: a2mt: where are we at?
Pretty sure the problem is is that very few people are working on their levels and random projects, which I was fully expecting because when I was a young kid I wouldn't have been able to finish any of this either. And you can't just kick them off of their level because there is no one available to take their place anyway, so I don't know.
- AUS
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Re: a2mt: where are we at?
My current and only problem (as has been with this and the last level idea I had) is that I'm requesting an asm code and haven't recieved it yet. ;)
Infact, I've been wildly ignored by some. :D
If anyone wishes to help me, here is my request;
-AUS out.
Infact, I've been wildly ignored by some. :D
If anyone wishes to help me, here is my request;
So yeah. Until then, I'll just work on the parts of my level that aren't using this gimmick.An ASM code that will make a level act "dark" in the same way that header OC acts "dark," with some transparent sprites and everything looking much darker.
-AUS out.
"oh no my best friend was replaced by a evil demon shadow monster"
"argh i am the evil shadow monster demon shadow"
Vip is pronounced "Beep"
nostalgic realtime nitroid let's play playlist
Re: a2mt: where are we at?
The request is a little confusing. Why can't you use level header OC? (lol oc hai)
Trouble with a capital COW.
<math>\tan{A}\sin{N}</math>
- AUS
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Re: a2mt: where are we at?
0C is not layer 2.chdata wrote:The request is a little confusing. Why can't you use level header OC? (lol oc hai)
The request could go both ways, but personally I think it would be 'slightly' harder to add Layer 2 to a level, than to make it darker and give some sprites their natural transparency.
"oh no my best friend was replaced by a evil demon shadow monster"
"argh i am the evil shadow monster demon shadow"
Vip is pronounced "Beep"
nostalgic realtime nitroid let's play playlist
Re: a2mt: where are we at?
There natural transparency like in ghost levels? I don't know how you would go about doing that through levelasm.
Also, this is offtopic post in asm thread, please.
Also, this is offtopic post in asm thread, please.
- ProfessorDemetri
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Re: a2mt: where are we at?
I can see what Daxter is saying.
I think the fact that we're getting derailed alot of the time is forcing this to move at a snail's pace.
The level hackers are concerning themselves with plot developments, and plot developers are concerning themselves with the levels. We need to stick with what we're good with, be that levels, or plot, or music, or asm or whatever.
I also think that making a stricter deadline for updating is a must if we want to have this done in the next, year or so. People should be updating atleast every 2 weeks, even it's just to say, "OH HAI, I'm still alive". Most of us have lives outside of the interwebs, sure, but that doesn't mean that we can't contribute by sitting down for 20 minutes, and updating. And being lazy isn't a valid excuse anymore, and it's just hindering the process. If it's a matter of people just being lazy, then step down and give those levels to people that are actively trying to complete the task.
But I disagree with the level designers being held back by the specific rules. These rules are what makes the game have some sort of congruity, and same-y feeling to it, from level to level. The thing about the VIPS was that, sure they were fun and inventive, and all that jazz, but you literally never knew what you were going to be faced with next, be that a bad thing or a good thing. With A2MT, we know that we'll have a cool treasure to find, and rewards that follow. Congruity is a good thing.
tl;dr: level designers stay designing levels, and plot developers keep developing plot.
I think the fact that we're getting derailed alot of the time is forcing this to move at a snail's pace.
The level hackers are concerning themselves with plot developments, and plot developers are concerning themselves with the levels. We need to stick with what we're good with, be that levels, or plot, or music, or asm or whatever.
I also think that making a stricter deadline for updating is a must if we want to have this done in the next, year or so. People should be updating atleast every 2 weeks, even it's just to say, "OH HAI, I'm still alive". Most of us have lives outside of the interwebs, sure, but that doesn't mean that we can't contribute by sitting down for 20 minutes, and updating. And being lazy isn't a valid excuse anymore, and it's just hindering the process. If it's a matter of people just being lazy, then step down and give those levels to people that are actively trying to complete the task.
But I disagree with the level designers being held back by the specific rules. These rules are what makes the game have some sort of congruity, and same-y feeling to it, from level to level. The thing about the VIPS was that, sure they were fun and inventive, and all that jazz, but you literally never knew what you were going to be faced with next, be that a bad thing or a good thing. With A2MT, we know that we'll have a cool treasure to find, and rewards that follow. Congruity is a good thing.
tl;dr: level designers stay designing levels, and plot developers keep developing plot.
- raocow
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Re: a2mt: where are we at?
so by my count we got 27-28 levels inserted, a lot of it following the system of deadlines. Awesome! Keep at it, everyone!
I'm hoping to have around 70 levels, minus the switch palaces and castle, at the end, to more or less equate the first game. If everyone keeps working hard on their level, this is totally possible!
Keep on rockin', everyone!
I'm hoping to have around 70 levels, minus the switch palaces and castle, at the end, to more or less equate the first game. If everyone keeps working hard on their level, this is totally possible!
Keep on rockin', everyone!
the chillaxest of dragons
- ProfessorDemetri
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Re: a2mt: where are we at?
Yeah It's been really nice to see a steadily incline of inserted and finished levels.
Everyone is working hard, and because of this, the end product is going to be awesome! :)
Can't wait to play test it
Speaking of play testing... when that day comes, are we could to be having a seperate thread for comments on it, or maybe even a new section?
That way we could get input for each level seperately.. I dunno, just an Idea. ;)
Everyone is working hard, and because of this, the end product is going to be awesome! :)
Can't wait to play test it
Speaking of play testing... when that day comes, are we could to be having a seperate thread for comments on it, or maybe even a new section?
That way we could get input for each level seperately.. I dunno, just an Idea. ;)
Re: a2mt: where are we at?
I'm not sure how useful those constant deadline videos are, seeing as how 95% of the comments consist of commenting on Demo or asking what A2MT is (the latter one actually kind of baffles me at this point - I'm hoping/assuming those people are new subscribers). I'm trying to think of a better way to get peoples' attention without building hype for the thing, but the only thing I could think of is silent reminder PMs to those involved in the project (which is already being done if I recall...?). I get the purpose behind the videos, but .. eh, they seem to be losing their effect greatly, especially since after the most recent one, only a couple of people actually replied. Compared to the first reminder video, that seems like nothing.
Just my two cents. I wish I could think of a more down-to-earth way of making the deadline known to all of those involved, but it's tough. It really is.
Just my two cents. I wish I could think of a more down-to-earth way of making the deadline known to all of those involved, but it's tough. It really is.
- raocow
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Re: a2mt: where are we at?
The replies in the video themselves are not really important. I think they slowed down because people know we actually want the responses in the threads, not lost somewhere in there.
I'll admit it's not perfect, but honestly our means are a little limited, haha.
I'll admit it's not perfect, but honestly our means are a little limited, haha.
the chillaxest of dragons
- ProfessorDemetri
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Re: a2mt: where are we at?
SNN, gunna have to disagree with ya there actually...
We've actually seen a great increase of the hack actually getting finished ever since raocow has been doing those videos, and ever since the mods have been keeping up with the deadlines.
It's a good direction that the project has taken, I think.
Especially with all the youngsters out of school, and goin' crazy with the vacationing, they need constant reminders to keep on track. It's nothing bad, it's just what it is. When you realize that you need to remind yourself, or have someone else remind you, then you know that reminder will be there waiting for you to get your ass back in gear.
I think it's good. And it's a good way to be weeding out the people that wont last.
We've actually seen a great increase of the hack actually getting finished ever since raocow has been doing those videos, and ever since the mods have been keeping up with the deadlines.
It's a good direction that the project has taken, I think.
Especially with all the youngsters out of school, and goin' crazy with the vacationing, they need constant reminders to keep on track. It's nothing bad, it's just what it is. When you realize that you need to remind yourself, or have someone else remind you, then you know that reminder will be there waiting for you to get your ass back in gear.
I think it's good. And it's a good way to be weeding out the people that wont last.
Re: a2mt: where are we at?
I'm fully aware that it sparked life back into the project, but I'm saying it doesn't seem to be having the same effect it used to. A couple of months ago, the initial spark drew in a whole bunch of people, whereas the future videos seemed to draw in less and less. I'm not trying to shoot down the idea at all - I'm simply trying to say that even if the means are limited, as raocow mentioned, there is probably another/better way to get the level designers up to speed with everything.
Believe me, I want this to be just as successful as you guys, and I'm doing my best to run SMWCP2 -and- find time for this collab too (it's not easy doing both). When I bring up suggestions or points, they're not meant to be antagonizing - rather, they're meant to try and offer easier ways of handling the project, or ways to make people feel more "comfortable" designing. It was simply my own opinion that those videos produced a lot of potential hype (which, as we've seen in the past, isn't good) and haven't been doing their intended job lately.
...but I mean, again, this is all from my point of view!
Believe me, I want this to be just as successful as you guys, and I'm doing my best to run SMWCP2 -and- find time for this collab too (it's not easy doing both). When I bring up suggestions or points, they're not meant to be antagonizing - rather, they're meant to try and offer easier ways of handling the project, or ways to make people feel more "comfortable" designing. It was simply my own opinion that those videos produced a lot of potential hype (which, as we've seen in the past, isn't good) and haven't been doing their intended job lately.
...but I mean, again, this is all from my point of view!
- Saturn Moriya
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Re: a2mt: where are we at?
Maybe post a news post on smwcentral to remind people? I think everyone working on A2MT also has a/an smwcentral account, and are active on it, except when they aren't touching the computer at all. Also, let's interfere with the moderators yo!