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What we could have done better

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flameofdoubt
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What we could have done better

Post by flameofdoubt »

As per Argumentable's idea, here are my suggestions:

Have ExGFX and Music slot signups to avoid clashing and more work at the end.

Rigorously maintain Map16 data.

Have a couple of people working on administration (true two people can't both insert levels but taking in submissions and checking them, maintaining map16, allowing level signups and OK-ing ideas would go a lot more smoothly).

Make a rule so that every level must pass testing (possibly be authorised by an official head of testing or something), before the Project Co-ordinator is given the level to insert.

Test for level difficulty (should be self-explanatory, if an early level is too hard or a later level too easy it needs to be rethought).

Individual Level Deadlines (If someone applies for a level they have a set time to complete it. If they miss the deadline that's okay, they can instantly reapply, but newcomers will be given priority over someone who missed a deadline. Also if people find out they have holidays or whatnot, suspensions can be allowed).

On the fly Credits (Any time a graphic change is approved or a level inserted, have a note of anyone who worked on it).
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Argumentable
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Re: What we could have done better

Post by Argumentable »

Stole my idea. Not contributing


No seriously though, if they miss the deadline its not okay! What good is a deadline if there are no consequences for missing it. If you miss it then you can't reapply for a while, how long is a while? I don't know, but its not instantaneous! If you are having problems or whatever, yes, you can ask for an extension, but none of this "oh it's ok" bullshit.

Also I think global graphics should be done first, and then distributed so everyone can have them before they start working on their levels. I think it would make things easier and we wouldn't have things like invisible noteblocks
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flameofdoubt
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Re: What we could have done better

Post by flameofdoubt »

Credit was given. Either stop being uselessly sarcastic or stop being so childish.
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Re: What we could have done better

Post by Argumentable »

Flame, can you not take a joke? At all?
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Re: What we could have done better

Post by Kil »

One thing that might be useful next time ya'll try this, is an idea from the VIP series.

http://vip.rgr.jp/sm4wiki/?%E6%94%B9%E9 ... %E7%99%BA5

At the bottom you will find a (badly formatted) wiki table containing what map16, sprite number, exgfx number, etc, the corresponding level is using. Updating one of these would probably be a lot easier than using text files on the coordinator's computer, and constantly bugging him with questions about what has been taken and not taken. If everyone updates their own level in the table with what they're using, anyone can quickly check to see what slots are open for insertion. There should be almost no work needed from the coordinator in organizing map16 and all of that then.

Edit: Hell maybe you could even convince the guy hosting this site to host a small wiki for it. If not though, you could do it on a wikipedia userpage anyway.
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kilon
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Re: What we could have done better

Post by kilon »

Finishing the entire OW and the order of which the worlds appear before even thinking about opening level sign ups

Have at least a global idea of a plot before opening level sign ups (and perhaps making the OW but that could restrict you to much)

Finish global gfx before opening level sign ups

Test your own level and let others test your level before even thinking about submitting it

Have a global idea of how the last castle will be before opening room sign ups. Just to make sure there is no miscommunication in making and inserting it.


So pretty much organize the whole thing better.
Ofcourse, this all started on a non serious scale and turned into this thing so a sequel would be on a higher level from the start.
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Re: What we could have done better

Post by rubberfishy »

Argumentable wrote:Flame, can you not take a joke? At all?
NEIN HUMOUR IN ZE TALKHOAZ!
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Re: What we could have done better

Post by Argumentable »

kilon wrote:Finishing the entire OW and the order of which the worlds appear before even thinking about opening level sign ups
World theme order: yes, entire overworld, no. I think we should leave that part kind of open so of someone has like this great ice theme level idea we could put it in even if we've reached the "limit" so to speak. And of course I'm not saying don't put a cap on it (to start with) at all.
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Re: What we could have done better

Post by rubberfishy »

yeah I though it was a bit silly that you guys created a beach over world and something else overworld and where like, ok we have 10 beach levels slots, go make them!

it would be much better imo if you just let people do what they want with levels and then create over worlds based around the levels.

tho maybe the levels should be in order of difficultly rather than grouped by theme?
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Re: What we could have done better

Post by flameofdoubt »

Arguing:
Argumentable wrote:Flame, can you not take a joke. At all?
Only if I'm absolutely sure it's a joke, and there is never a definite joking part or serious part to your posts. If all such posts by you are entirely joking then they're about as useful as spam (usually the person wants an opinion and by joking you're ignoring the request just to seem funny to everyone else), and I tend to attribute you with more sense (and, looking at the posts that are apparently joking, a greater sense of humour) than to do that, so I have to assume you're serious.
rubberfishy wrote:NEIN HUMOUR IN ZE TALKHOAZ!
Talkhose? I can see this is obviously an attempt at humour but Rubberfishy this is the collab forum where we work on the collab. If we were in the Gazebo my response would be different. Also whereas this is obvious via being dumb, Argumentable your joking posts are always ambiguous to me, so I never know where to stand with you. While in real life it would be obvious with the use of tone, not so on the internet. Yes, it's largely safe to assume most of your posts are joking but I'd rather be wrong in thinking you're joking and look stiff than be wrong in thinking you're serious and risk offending.
If we grouped levels by difficulty rather than theme, the overworlds would each be very schizophrenic. I agree with the idea to not finalise the overworld before we make the levels, but if we went with that then to fit in a new level we'd either be editing an already made overworld or making the overworlds after every level has been submitted, and the number of levels available for signup was in this case decided by the overworld, so we might have to just pick a number at the start.
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kilon
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Re: What we could have done better

Post by kilon »

Hmm, yes. But then there is a change that it all makes less sense. I mean a desert level followed by ice, water, grass, ghost house, desert, desert, grass, cave isn't possible to do with some sort of (semi)realistic OW.
SO then you'd have to go on a way less sense making route
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Re: What we could have done better

Post by Oracle of Wuffing »

:/ We need to mark this as a SERIOUS BUSINESS subform some two-four weeks before the final deadline, 'cause that's about when posting something that's not immediately relevant to the topic at hand just gets everyone butthurt over small stuff, and getting butthurt over things just clutters up important stuff from being discussed or whatnot.

N+1ing deadlines for everything.

This is my personal nitpick: One topic for graphic critiques and suggestions, one topic for graphic voting. Graphic voting should just be "I VOTE FOR X" and none of this "I VOTE FOR Y BECAUSE I THINK IT IS A BETTER DEMONSTRATION OF THE INFLUENCE OF GREECE IN THE EGYPTIAN WORLD BLAH BLAH BLAH" stuff. That's a critique, it belongs in the critique topic. Ideally, having more people on administration could keep the voting process sorted out on what's being voted, but whatever.

Also, hit Oracle of Wuffing with a sledgehammer geez.
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Re: What we could have done better

Post by Blinx »

you know I was gonna make a smartass post about "oh hey you did everything right there is nothing you could have done better" but then I saw flame's posts

is it just me or is flameofdoubt a huge uptight prick

I don't think it's just me
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Re: What we could have done better

Post by Moniker »

In my opinion, an end to democracy would be an improvement. (This isn't semi-sarcastic argumentable-ish suggestion.)

For each category have a global moderator that makes final decisions and cannot be questioned: this way things flow together. I.e.: a global graphics handler, a plot handler, a level design handler, &c.

People sort of rose to the occasion to these roles (chdata, kilon, and YCZ/Argumentable, respectively), but having it set in stone would avoid a lot of useless bickering. I don't think we'd have too much argument about who gets these vaunted positions, since taking responsibility isn't a SMW hacker strong-suit. Anyway, could still discuss all these matters, but have overseers.

We should also have a set of FG/BG graphics for each world (like we did with KCC), which people would of course be allowed to deviate from, before levels are assigned. This is of course in addition to global sprite GFX.

As for the plot, I don't think we'll need to worry too much about it. As kilon said, a general idea of the story's arc should be out there before beginning, but since we've got a launching point now, I don't think it'll be much of a problem. I can already think of lots of neato developments.
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Chdata
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Re: What we could have done better

Post by Chdata »

For custom patches and stuff it'd be nice to at least post all the org $ stuff so it'd be easier to avoid patch problems like the credit patch and death counter.

Also perhaps having one subforum for the stickies and another for nonstickies.
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Re: What we could have done better

Post by Blinx »

Moniker wrote: plot handler
hey, NO

sorry bro global plot handler that can't be debated against is not a good idea
asdf
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kilon
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Re: What we could have done better

Post by kilon »

It's not like you can't discuss anything. But you do have to draw a line at some point.
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Re: What we could have done better

Post by Blinx »

still not a good idea I object
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Re: What we could have done better

Post by Argumentable »

chdata wrote:For custom patches and stuff it'd be nice to at least post all the org $ stuff so it'd be easier to avoid patch problems like the credit patch and death counter.

Also perhaps having one subforum for the stickies and another for nonstickies.
Um, do you know what sticky means?
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Re: What we could have done better

Post by Kil »

every thread should have its own forum so that way nothing will be missed
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Re: What we could have done better

Post by Tails_155 »

Might I suggest custom graphics for imported sprites? (Venus Fire Trap, etc.)
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Re: What we could have done better

Post by raekuul »

rubberfishy wrote:NEIN HUMOUR IN ZE TALKHOAZ!
Du darfts hier Deutsch nichts schreiben!

...

Aber, du hast nichts hier Deutsch geschrieben, so...

"Nein! Wir dürfen keine Witze in dem Talkhaus erzählen!"

(Please be aware that I'm a year and a half out of practice, so if anyone really wants to be a Grammar Bolshevik about this, go right ahead.)
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Re: What we could have done better

Post by BLD »

raekuul wrote:
rubberfishy wrote:NEIN HUMOUR IN ZE TALKHOAZ!
Du darfts hier Deutsch nichts schreiben!

...

Aber, du hast nichts hier Deutsch geschrieben, so...

"Nein! Wir dürfen keine Witze in dem Talkhaus erzählen!"

(Please be aware that I'm a year and a half out of practice, so if anyone really wants to be a Grammar Bolshevik about this, go right ahead.)
Why would I want to be a grammar majority?

That aside, Just from watching Rao's LP, i second ... third... eighteenth... the call for consistent difficulty. But, so far, the lack of plot organization is hilarious. Or did you guys have to stay up late changing stuff to make it this cohesively incohesive?
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Re: What we could have done better

Post by kilon »

BLD wrote:But, so far, the lack of plot organization is hilarious.
what? Is there something not consistent?
If you are watching the LP I don't want to share to much (unless you read through some threads on your own) but while the organization could be better, it's not like it is one big mess.. I hope.
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Re: What we could have done better

Post by flameofdoubt »

I'm interested myself, what exactly isn't cohesive about the plot? Or do you mean the castle destruction messages which are more random?
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