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Re: Twitter Thread

Post by Zha Hong Lang »

So, as an American 12th Grader living in Asia, I had a pretty interesting way to see the live election results.

Because of the time zone differences, we got to view the elections live during our classtime, rather than late at night. Most of us were able to watch the election results for one or two class periods in a row, before switching to a class that just wanted to do actual classwork instead. I thought that made it rather interesting, because then it created an amount of semi-hype for which switch state's coming up next. That combined with the large amount of switch states this election made the results really interesting to watch.

What especially made the experience comfortable was that I spent most of the time in a classroom with a centrist (or independent?) teacher, so we never had any potential for bitter left vs. right debates. (though that wouldn't have happened anyway with the average competency level of English at our school)

The most extremist were actually the middle school kids, particularly one Vietnamese boy that (for some reason?) was a Trump supporter. And this wasn't a joke, he had been supporting Trump for months, and had even given himself the English name Trump. (not even as a nickname, it's the actual name he prefers to be called by in English) Now that I think about it, though, there weren't that many extremists other than him, not counting the few non-serious trump supporters.

Most of our student body, which is mixed between Korean (60%) and Vietnamese, (30%) said that they'd vote for Clinton if they were eligible. There were also some Vietnamese kids who were rooting for Obama, which is not terribly surprising given how much the Vietnamese people love Obama, but still sad because of how little knowledge they had about the election. The few American students are quite divided politically, and due to our small numbers (<10) results in a pretty diverse body. Some are democratic, some are republican, but one is libertarian and another is green. I thought that's pretty nice, since it gives our school diversity in opinion, not just ethnicity.

I don't really want to talk about the election results, but I just thought it'd be interesting to share what it's like for me to see them happen.
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Re: Twitter Thread

Post by Mata Hari »

Well I was worried about Brexit but the world might be consumed by nuclear hellfire before it matters.

Good
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Re: Twitter Thread

Post by raekuul »

I woke up this morning and the first question I asked was "Is the city on fire yet?"

The reply was "No, but DC might be"
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Re: Twitter Thread

Post by BurntTenda »

I am not sure at all how I feel about this election.
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Re: Twitter Thread

Post by SAJewers »

Alice wrote:I really hope that Trump doesn't turn out to be as bad a president as he's been predicted to be. I'd be honestly surprised to see it turn out that way but nobody's been able to adequately predict Trump up to this point anyways so here's hoping.
I haven't kept up with Philippine Politics that much, but my understanding is that Rodrigo Duterte hasn't been as bad as people were claiming out there (aside from/until his US rethoric), and he has done some good things, war on drugs and US rethoric aside.
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Re: Twitter Thread

Post by TaviTurnip »

I've already been telling myself to wait and see what good comes of it if/when Trump is elected. I'm sure something good will come of it. Hell if I could tell you what. By law of averages, something has to <_<

Waking up this morning to countless Canadians being racist fucks to American people (as always, btw) was not the way I wanted this four years to start. I was hoping that maybe one day worldwide racism toward innocent Americans (like say, you guys, or any average nerd online) would slow down, but it's not going to anymore.

We're in for a wild ride, kids :x
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Re: Twitter Thread

Post by raekuul »

For eight years Democrats have been telling Republicans that Obama won't be as bad as they were making him out to be.

And he really wasn't. Hell, he accomplished many things that Bush simply couldn't.

It'll be interesting to see the shoe being put on the other foot here.
notbecauseofvictories on tumblr wrote:THINGS A PRESIDENT CANNOT DO:
  • Reverse any Supreme Court decision
    This includes Obergefell v. Hodges, which made same-sex marriage a constitutional right; Whole Woman’s Health v. Hellerstedt, which reaffirmed a woman’s right to choose first articulated in Roe v. Wade, another Supreme Court case. Grutter v. Bollinger, which instituted affirmative action, the entire body of Civil Rights case law, plus anything related to due process, including the right of minors to due process, your right to an attorney, Miranda rights, inadmissible evidence, etc.
    (Even if Trump appoints the worst possible SC nominee, they still can’t reverse any of these decisions without a really significant case coming before the Court with new facts, and then they have to write an opinion stating how this case is different than that other case…it’s unlikely to happen.)
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    (This is why down-ticket voting is so important, because Mike Pence as governor of Indiana had 800x the power he’s going to have as VP.)
  • Declare war.
    This one is the most complicated, because with the advent of our “conflicts” in Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, etc. there has been a significant shift in the articulation of the war doctrine, and it is one of the least restricted of the president’s “restricted” powers. But, despite all that, a president still has no power to declare war.
  • Unilaterally appoint heads of administrative departments
  • Unilaterally make treaties with foreign nations
    Essentially, while presidents have a lot of power, it’s mostly unofficial—they can’t make sweeping laws, they can’t overturn existing rights, the most they can do is refuse to enforce them (which is absolutely a threat! and a problem!) but we aren’t electing de facto royalty here.
Basically, it's our job as the voting public to make sure that Congress does their damn job and doesn't let Trump go power mad.
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Re: Twitter Thread

Post by Coryman »

Well, as I'm sure everyone knows, a very big, important, world-changing decision was made yesterday...

Those four new elements discovered this year were officially named! (Moscovium, Nihonium, Tennessine and Oganesson)
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Re: Twitter Thread

Post by ztarwuff »

Coryman wrote:Well, as I'm sure everyone knows, a very big, important, world-changing decision was made yesterday...

Those four new elements discovered this year were officially named! (Moscovium, Nihonium, Tennessine and Oganesson)
Wait, what? They did that in June. I remember because Brady Haran quizzed CGP Grey on it in their Hello Internet podcast.

Speaking of which...

[youtube]zcZTTB10_Vo[/youtube]

So Trump won the Presidency despite getting less than 50% of the popular vote? I understand the Electoral College is there to prevent a tyranny of the masses, but surely, the Presidency should be elected on popular vote because the President is supposed to represent the country?
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Re: Twitter Thread

Post by raekuul »

So Trump won the Presidency despite getting less than 50% of the popular vote? I understand the Electoral College is there to prevent a tyranny of the masses, but surely, the Presidency should be elected on popular vote because the President is supposed to represent the country?
Because 51% of the population lives in 9 states, and the sociology of regionalism suggests that people in similar regions will think (and therefore vote) similarly. That's why we have a thing called the Bible Belt (and frankly it's also why Joseph Smith was unwise in declaring himself a candidate for the presidency - Missourians, and later Illinoisians, were scared to death that the Mormons would vote as a bloc and sign their morality into law). The electoral college is there to give the States the final say in who becomes President, as well as to minimize the effects of provincialism by making sure that each state has at least three votes to cast (more if they have more population).

Based solely on the 2012 numbers - California had a population of about 38.06 Million people, out of the US's total 314.1 Million. That's just over 12% of the population. In 2012, they provided 55 electors out of 538. That's... just over 10% of the electoral vote.

If you want to complain about electors not reflecting state populations properly, complain to the national census bureau, who only has the manpower and funding to complete their constitutional duty once a decade.

E: Alternately, push for state legislation that removes All Or Nothing voting with the electoral votes. That way the electoral votes can more accurately reflect the will of the people instead of just "OMG THIS PERSON HAS ONE MORE VOTE THAN THAT GUY LET'S GIVE HIM 7% OF THE POINTS HE NEEDS OVERALL"
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Re: Twitter Thread

Post by RedMageSusie »

I'm reeeeeeally hoping this doesn't end up as bad as I think it will be. But the GoP basically having carte blanche is terrifying.

2016 is shaping up to be a terrible year. Lot of people I like died, Brexit, President Trump, plus a whole lot of personal issues. But gotta look on the bright side. Cubs won the World Series, and...

...um...there's gotta be other good things about this year, right? Something? Anything???
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Re: Twitter Thread

Post by Ninja Steve »

RedMageMike wrote:I'm reeeeeeally hoping this doesn't end up as bad as I think it will be. But the GoP basically having carte blanche is terrifying.

2016 is shaping up to be a terrible year. Lot of people I like died, Brexit, President Trump, plus a whole lot of personal issues. But gotta look on the bright side. Cubs won the World Series, and...

...um...there's gotta be other good things about this year, right? Something? Anything???
One of my friends refuses to speak to me because I was glad the Cubs won the world series, so even that turned into a negative for me.
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Re: Twitter Thread

Post by InsaneIntentions1 »

Not making any snap judgement's. I'll see what he can accomplish in a years time.
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Re: Twitter Thread

Post by Coryman »

ztarwuff wrote: Wait, what? They did that in June. I remember because Brady Haran quizzed CGP Grey on it in their Hello Internet podcast.
I think the names were proposed then, but i think they were only made official yesterday. Could be wrong though...
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Re: Twitter Thread

Post by YelseyKing »

RedMageMike wrote:...um...there's gotta be other good things about this year, right? Something? Anything???
Well. We *did* see a kickass Metroid 2 fan remake. Even if Nintendo C&D'd it. That's gotta count for *something*, right? Hey, you said *anything*. :P
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Re: Twitter Thread

Post by ztarwuff »

raekuul wrote:
So Trump won the Presidency despite getting less than 50% of the popular vote? I understand the Electoral College is there to prevent a tyranny of the masses, but surely, the Presidency should be elected on popular vote because the President is supposed to represent the country?
Because 51% of the population lives in 9 states, and the sociology of regionalism suggests that people in similar regions will think (and therefore vote) similarly. That's why we have a thing called the Bible Belt (and frankly it's also why Joseph Smith was unwise in declaring himself a candidate for the presidency - Missourians, and later Illinoisians, were scared to death that the Mormons would vote as a bloc and sign their morality into law). The electoral college is there to give the States the final say in who becomes President, as well as to minimize the effects of provincialism by making sure that each state has at least three votes to cast (more if they have more population).

Based solely on the 2012 numbers - California had a population of about 38.06 Million people, out of the US's total 314.1 Million. That's just over 12% of the population. In 2012, they provided 55 electors out of 538. That's... just over 10% of the electoral vote.

If you want to complain about electors not reflecting state populations properly, complain to the national census bureau, who only has the manpower and funding to complete their constitutional duty once a decade.

E: Alternately, push for state legislation that removes All Or Nothing voting with the electoral votes. That way the electoral votes can more accurately reflect the will of the people instead of just "OMG THIS PERSON HAS ONE MORE VOTE THAN THAT GUY LET'S GIVE HIM 7% OF THE POINTS HE NEEDS OVERALL"
Oh I'm aware of how it works. I watched the CGP Grey video. I just don't understand why you would use that system to elect the President. Fair enough, you don't want the Senate and the House to be elected the same way. You want the one to keep the other in check. But why should the President not be by popular vote?

Granted, given the FPTP voting system, Hilary would have been voted in with under 50% too so that's not exactly a good thing either but it seems strange that the Presidency isn't direct.

Then again, who am I to speak? The British don't directly elect its Head of State or Head of Government either.
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Re: Twitter Thread

Post by Whimsical Calamari »

ztarwuff wrote:given the FPTP voting system,
with regards to that, hopefully other states follow maine on its ranked-choice voting. this could be good.
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Re: Twitter Thread

Post by raekuul »

I just don't understand why you would use that system to elect the President.
Because would you want to live in a country where 50% of the political power is actively concentrated to 20% of the land mass and heavily favors decisions made in locations with high population density? For all its faults, it gives places like Wyoming and Alaska a clear and present voice in the process.

Admittedly, it works better in the absence of groups being able to spend a discernible chunk of the nation's GDP on promoting their stooge candidate.
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Re: Twitter Thread

Post by ztarwuff »

Whimsical Calamari wrote:
ztarwuff wrote:given the FPTP voting system,
with regards to that, hopefully other states follow maine on its ranked-choice voting. this could be good.
Well if the UK 2011 Alternative Vote Referendum is anything to judge by, the powers that be will do everything in their power to maintain the status quo. We weren't even supposed to be voting for Alternative Vote. We were supposed to be voting for PR but the Conservatives just wouldn't have it, presumably because they benefit from it.

With the exception of the last election, my local Conservative MP has consistently been voted in with under 50% of the votes. (He voted to keep FPTP, naturally).
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Re: Twitter Thread

Post by Coryman »

I know I can't speak for all of Canada, but personally I'm not against the anti-Trump people hiding here (within reason).
It's more the concentrated pro-Trump country that would be left behind that worries me
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Re: Twitter Thread

Post by RedMageSusie »

YelseyKing wrote:
RedMageMike wrote:...um...there's gotta be other good things about this year, right? Something? Anything???
Well. We *did* see a kickass Metroid 2 fan remake. Even if Nintendo C&D'd it. That's gotta count for *something*, right? Hey, you said *anything*. :P
I'll take it.
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Re: Twitter Thread

Post by Alice »

raekuul wrote:For eight years Democrats have been telling Republicans that Obama won't be as bad as they were making him out to be.

And he really wasn't. Hell, he accomplished many things that Bush simply couldn't.

It'll be interesting to see the shoe being put on the other foot here.

Basically, it's our job as the voting public to make sure that Congress does their damn job and doesn't let Trump go power mad.
You do realize that Trump actually stands to leave a long lasting effect on the US even after he's out of office simply because he's guaranteed to be able to appoint a minimum of one Supreme Court justice, right? And he's pledged to appoint one to overturn the Supreme Court ruling in favor of gay marriage with the intent that states get to handle it instead. States such as the ones who kept challenging the ruling to begin with because they can't just leave people be. And he could appoint anywhere from 1-3 other justices during his term as well. This is very bad for any LGBT person and civil rights in general. Conservatives are not known for supporting civil rights. I was reading last night that just for gay marriage in particular something like 78% of liberals support it while only around 31% of conservatives do. So the Supreme Court leaning conservatively is very bad for those people.
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Re: Twitter Thread

Post by YelseyKing »

Oh. And one bit of good news: Sheriff Joe Arpaio finally got booted out of office in Arizona. If you've ever lived in Arizona (I spent the first 21 years of my life there before moving to Oregon), or are even the slightest bit familiar with the jackass, you know why this is a good thing.
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Re: Twitter Thread

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Now that it's been around a day, I'm feeling a very complex set of thoughts.

Thought 1: I am glad Clinton is not going to be president, if only because of the DNCs forceful pushing of her onto us as a candidate and all the baggage she's had from her long tenure as a politician.
Thought 2: I may be overreacting to the whole Trump thing but my word do I still feel like he's the most incompetent person to ever be elected. I guess more people were sick of the top getting there way then they were of anything else.
See when it comes to this, most of what I know comes from the media, and the media is known to stretch the truth, cherrypick things, and blow things out of proportion, so I literally have no idea.
Thought 3: Bernie would have won easily, you stupid DNC elite idiots.

I probably have more thoughts, but this is a good start.

Please don't get upset at me for these thoughts. I don't like getting yelled at...
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Re: Twitter Thread

Post by Alice »

pholtos wrote:Please don't get upset at me for these thoughts. I don't like getting yelled at...
In my opinion your view is respectable. At least you're not one of those delusional morons who believes that people have nothing to worry about with what Trump has promised basically outright stating he'll be a great president specifically because he lied to voters and said he'll do awful shit. I don't understand those people at all and they're infuriating as hell to try and have a discussion with.
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