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Learning-Timebuster
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Re: Twitter Thread

Post by Learning-Timebuster »

not that i really have anything to add because i think leet has said everything that needed to be said, but yeah, i agree with her on all accounts here, and seeing how the things shes saying here are met with this kind of opposition really makes me want to leave this community behind even moreso than i already wanted to
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Alice
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Re: Twitter Thread

Post by Alice »

Leet wrote:Alice, please do not continue to imply that I did not go to great lengths to describe a link between different facets of society. I know you are talking about "people" and "a person" here, but I still feel it is willfully rude/pointless to continue to support the brushing off of anything that I actually said.

If all anyone can engage with is their expectations for what others are saying, then it becomes painfully obvious that proper analysis/criticism is impossible. In the real world, opinions don't live within a duality. (Not that opinions are even my focus here.)
I brushed off what you said because it's pretty much completely irrelevant. It boils down to this: Is enjoying something fictional that others find distasteful inherently immoral when it's not harming anybody? If not then it's not an issue. Getting worked up over those things would be a lot more productive if they were directed towards a legitimate source of danger for children instead.
Especially because my main conceit is "petting your little sister in Fire Emblem is included to maximize profit based on popular anime", which is almost objectively true; the alternative is it was an artistic decision made out of creativity and imagination. I hope nobody really thinks that.
This shows a fairly poor understanding of business. The most likely way this got added was more like this: Someone actually working on the game came up with the idea and thought it would appeal to the fanbase so they suggested it. The business people in charge would have been the ones who went "yeah, that sounds like a good way to make more money". Either way though simply trying to make more money isn't the issue you brought up to begin with. Your view of it is something sexualized. As Jesuiscontent pointed out that's simply not the case 100% of the time. And even if it was it's something completely fictional so who honestly cares? If it's not harming real people then it's simply a matter of personal distaste. You know what I do with things I don't care for but which aren't harming someone? I actively avoid them rather than complaining about them and generalizing them.
As an aside, even though we all know that fictional pedophilia isn't the same as actual rape or anything, it's still pretty skeevy. Just because it's not as bad doesn't mean it's innocent and pure. This is another concept that does not exist within a duality in the real world, as nothing exists in a vacuum; all life is connected. I may not try to arrest somebody who hardcore fetishizes anime children, but I also wouldn't want them around any hypothetical children of my own.
Whether it's skeevy or not isn't relevant. Again, it's simply a matter of personal distaste if it's not harming anyone. I find lolicon shit to be quite distasteful myself. But it's not harming children and could potentially serves as an outlet for someone who has urges they have no control over (much like violent video games do to making gamers a fair bit less violent in general) so it's at worst a neutral thing.
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Leet
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Re: Twitter Thread

Post by Leet »

Alice wrote:I brushed off what you said because it's pretty much completely irrelevant. It boils down to this: Is enjoying something fictional that others find distasteful inherently immoral when it's not harming anybody? If not then it's not an issue. Getting worked up over those things would be a lot more productive if they were directed towards a legitimate source of danger for children instead.
Except, you know, I spent a very long paragraph talking about the idol industry's role in this. As well as a subsequent paragraph explaining that the idol industry is about real people. This is just a stock response that completely ignores the fact that I've been talking about real, nonfictional children the whole time, and how their audience is becoming closely linked with the anime audience. Are you illiterate? When have I ever once focused on fiction alone? My whole point, the entire time, was to show how it interfaces with these physical world industries! I would never subsist an entire argument on "I don't like this thing" without taking immense care to explain exactly why I think it is a problem, which is exactly what I did, mentioning not only what I found skeevy but also specific names, figures and institutions connected to the exploitation of actual, real-world young girls, and why I thought that was connected to modern art trends in both fiction and real-world performance.

If you, as you seem to, (and this is a general you), know absolutely nothing about all of this, I don't need to hear placeholder westerner 4chan responses when I am talking about things that I have done research on by reading the observations of actual Japanese critics.
Last edited by Leet 7 years ago, edited 3 times in total.
Well it is a decent hack but sometime its just too repetitif there no level that actually pop in your face and your like oh yeah that level they all ressemble themselves and just monster along the way.
Blood Ghoul wrote:Sometimes it seems my blood spurts out in gobs, as if it were a fountain's pulsing sobs. I clearly hear it mutter as it goes yet cannot find the wound from which it flows. Before I met you, baby, I didn't know what I was missing.
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Bean
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Re: Twitter Thread

Post by Bean »

I just stopped by to say I had a good last couple of days at work. That's the first time things have gone this well for me all summer there. Oh, and I think I made a Twitter promise that I'd play Pokémon depending on how this Kalos League thing goes for Ash in the anime.
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spittySynthyHands
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Re: Twitter Thread

Post by spittySynthyHands »

Learning-Timebuster wrote:not that i really have anything to add because i think leet has said everything that needed to be said, but yeah, i agree with her on all accounts here, and seeing how the things shes saying here are met with this kind of opposition really makes me want to leave this community behind even moreso than i already wanted to
Keep in mind that a) A lot of people like anime here and b) leet's opening statement was "anime is now about pedophilia", without any explanation. For a similar reaction, you might as well go into a library and shout "Reading is for nerds!" at the top of your lungs.

I agree that theres a heck of lot skeevy stuff going on in the industry, but even then I wouldn't make blanket statements like "anime is produced for pedophiles", given the sheer volume of it thats made.

I'm not touching the "Its fictional, so its okay" vs "Even if its fictional, its harmful" debate.
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Alice
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Re: Twitter Thread

Post by Alice »

Leet wrote:Except, you know, I spent a very long paragraph talking about the idol industry's role in this. As well as a subsequent paragraph explaining that the idol industry is about real people. This is just a stock response that completely ignores the fact that I've been talking about real, nonfictional children the whole time, and how their audience is becoming closely linked with the anime audience.

Are you illiterate? When have I ever once focused on fiction alone? My whole point, the entire time, was to show how it interfaces with these physical world industries!
You're completely missing the point. The point is that fictional things are irrelevant. If you're worried about children being exploited in any way then focus on real children being exploited. It's really weird to focus on the least relevant part of an issue.
Are you illiterate?
If you, as you seem to, (and this is a general you), know absolutely nothing about all of this, I don't need to hear placeholder westerner 4chan responses when I am talking about things that I have done research on by reading the observations of actual Japanese critics.
Nice job resorting to trying to insult me and imply I'm stupid, lol. (For the record I dislike 4chan, just like I do Reddit. Both sites have far too many totally toxic people on top of having obnoxious usability issues.)

If we're resorting to stuff like that:
I would never subsist an entire argument on "I don't like this thing" without taking immense care to explain exactly why I think it is a problem, which is exactly what I did, mentioning not only what I found skeevy but also specific names, figures and institutions connected to the exploitation of actual, real-world young girls, and why I thought that was connected to modern art trends in both fiction and real-world performance.
I could point out how this argument means literally nothing. If your argument itself is meaningless then it really doesn't matter if you took immense care to explain it. This isn't the first time I've argued with you over something you personally didn't like which you took a lot of care to explain your views on and which we still disagreed because your arguments didn't hold much water. You did the same thing right after you joined IsoNation to whine about how Aposke is allowed on the site despite the fact he's behaved himself pretty well over there. (And despite the fact IsoNation is not the talkhaus so personal disagreements such as those many here hold against Aposke are irrelevant to whether he's allowed there.)
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TheFinalSentinel
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Re: Twitter Thread

Post by TheFinalSentinel »

I'll just be playing Nekopara over in the corner here don'tmindme. Image
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Mikkofier
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Re: Twitter Thread

Post by Mikkofier »

Sometimes I order stuff not just because I want something but partly because I want something to look forward to.
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Re: Twitter Thread

Post by Ivy »

my favorite anime is jojo's bizarre adventure
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TaviTurnip
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Re: Twitter Thread

Post by TaviTurnip »

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I regularly stream on Twitch! with other members of the talkhaus. Come watch Monday, Tuesday and Friday at 2PM for blind playthroughs and Pokémon and Touhou and stuff. Come hang out with us!
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metasomnia?
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Re: Twitter Thread

Post by metasomnia? »

I've never sat down to watch any jojo

Although my roommate insisted on showing a clip of one of characters repeatedly doing silly raspberry things with his tongue :/
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TheFinalSentinel
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Re: Twitter Thread

Post by TheFinalSentinel »

I'd personally like to compare Jojo to DBZ in that it's not really good perse, but it's incredibly fun to watch. But multiplied by at least 10 for how over-the-top it is.
Also, it's stylish as hell.

Having watched season 1 over the last couple weeks.
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Jesuiscontent
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Re: Twitter Thread

Post by Jesuiscontent »

Leet wrote:
Alice wrote:I brushed off what you said because it's pretty much completely irrelevant. It boils down to this: Is enjoying something fictional that others find distasteful inherently immoral when it's not harming anybody? If not then it's not an issue. Getting worked up over those things would be a lot more productive if they were directed towards a legitimate source of danger for children instead.
Are you illiterate?
You used pedophilia, a very serious real-world issue, directly compared it to a entire fictional media genre, while also adding a stupid, innocuous minigame in a videogame in the mix. If you're going to backpedal, whatever I guess, but don't blame others and call them illiterate because you worded your post badly.
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Ashan
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Re: Twitter Thread

Post by Ashan »

Prove you're not a pedophile by posting how few hours you have in Fire Emblem
Smallest number doesn't want to fuck little girls the most
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Leet
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Re: Twitter Thread

Post by Leet »

Alice wrote:You did the same thing right after you joined IsoNation to whine about how Aposke is allowed on the site despite the fact he's behaved himself pretty well over there. (And despite the fact IsoNation is not the talkhaus so personal disagreements such as those many here hold against Aposke are irrelevant to whether he's allowed there.)
????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

actually i joined because isocitration is my favorite LPer and i'm pretty sure i explained circumstances about that to you about 3 times now and you went "oh okay" every single time, but i guess ill go kill myself or whatever. i didn't know you hated me personally enough to bring up irrelevant 2-year-old bullshit. i don't even know you
Well it is a decent hack but sometime its just too repetitif there no level that actually pop in your face and your like oh yeah that level they all ressemble themselves and just monster along the way.
Blood Ghoul wrote:Sometimes it seems my blood spurts out in gobs, as if it were a fountain's pulsing sobs. I clearly hear it mutter as it goes yet cannot find the wound from which it flows. Before I met you, baby, I didn't know what I was missing.
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Leet
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Re: Twitter Thread

Post by Leet »

spittySynthyHands wrote:I agree that theres a heck of lot skeevy stuff going on in the industry, but even then I wouldn't make blanket statements like "anime is produced for pedophiles", given the sheer volume of it thats made.
well, the context was "the modern anime industry", which is more or less true. its in stagnation, i think most people who keep up with it would agree that people are more focused in profits now than they were in the past. Lain probably would have an even harder time getting made today, for example. (Because that's the best example I can think of, not because of your avatar haha.) let alone even older stuff like Angel's Egg. i definitely dislike "intentionally irreverent" blanket statements about anime too, because i feel like it ignores people like Satoshi Kon and Kunihiko Ikuhara whose works have always challenged both the industry and society. so i made sure to cite their works to make clear that my views come from a position of actual Japanese creators and not just my own, potentially outsider perspective.

i think a lot of people just assume that i and others are judging things on a "good/bad" scale. i guess some people do that, but what i want to promote most of all is that it's good to be critical of the work we enjoy, even if we're enjoying it. that can be very hard to do, though, even for me. but a kneejerk "well, maybe, some pedophilia is not bad!" contributes nothing when, honestly, i was talking more about stagnation than the morals of it anyway. not that the two are separate topics in this context, really, but i think we can all agree that 14 Year Old Breasts is not the best the industry can do. surely, there is leagues more storytelling to be done with animation, and every idol show, incest fetish show or pedo bait show is just another step backwards. it is my love for when anime succeeds that makes me so passionate about pointing out why it is failing.
Well it is a decent hack but sometime its just too repetitif there no level that actually pop in your face and your like oh yeah that level they all ressemble themselves and just monster along the way.
Blood Ghoul wrote:Sometimes it seems my blood spurts out in gobs, as if it were a fountain's pulsing sobs. I clearly hear it mutter as it goes yet cannot find the wound from which it flows. Before I met you, baby, I didn't know what I was missing.
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Re: Twitter Thread

Post by TheFinalSentinel »

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Leet
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Re: Twitter Thread

Post by Leet »

that is exactly the sort of quality that we are lacking in the moder
Well it is a decent hack but sometime its just too repetitif there no level that actually pop in your face and your like oh yeah that level they all ressemble themselves and just monster along the way.
Blood Ghoul wrote:Sometimes it seems my blood spurts out in gobs, as if it were a fountain's pulsing sobs. I clearly hear it mutter as it goes yet cannot find the wound from which it flows. Before I met you, baby, I didn't know what I was missing.
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Re: Twitter Thread

Post by Alice »

Leet wrote:actually i joined because isocitration is my favorite LPer and i'm pretty sure i explained circumstances about that to you about 3 times now and you went "oh okay" every single time, but i guess ill go kill myself or whatever.
I think you need to relearn how to count. 1 isn't equivalent to 3. You joined IsoNation, basically immediately started complaining about Aposke despite the fact he was behaving himself, then said you were leaving when I explained that I saw no reason to get rid of him over there so long as he behaves himself, and that was it.
i didn't know you hated me personally enough to bring up irrelevant 2-year-old bullshit. i don't even know you
I don't really care about you one way or another. You just kinda pissed me off by deciding to call me illiterate because I disagreed with you.
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Leet
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Re: Twitter Thread

Post by Leet »

i never "left" that website either. i posted an old wip smw level on it just the other day. i don't really "join" or "leave" websites in an official manner, either i'm there or i'm not i guess, whatever. no need to make a big deal about whether i am there or not. this is really not relevant. i don't even remember anything i did two years ago anyway, only that you did on three occasions now begin talking about it in other contexts for no reason. if you want me to not go to that website then please tell me, i'm not really capable of saying no to that kind of thing.

i have an extreme aversion to conflict and it causes me minor physical chills/pain so forgive me for not wanting to try and work my way through something i don't even remember right now in order to "clear my name" or some such. i truly just wanted to talk about stagnation in media. i didn't want to talk about a lot of other things that people seemed to get out of that.
Well it is a decent hack but sometime its just too repetitif there no level that actually pop in your face and your like oh yeah that level they all ressemble themselves and just monster along the way.
Blood Ghoul wrote:Sometimes it seems my blood spurts out in gobs, as if it were a fountain's pulsing sobs. I clearly hear it mutter as it goes yet cannot find the wound from which it flows. Before I met you, baby, I didn't know what I was missing.
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Alice
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Re: Twitter Thread

Post by Alice »

Leet wrote:if you want me to not go to that website then please tell me, i'm not really capable of saying no to that kind of thing.
If I didn't then you'd have been permabanned. (Though I'd really rather not permaban anyone period if at all possible.) But as long as people behave themselves over there anyone's welcome.
i truly just wanted to talk about stagnation in media. i didn't want to talk about a lot of other things that people seemed to get out of that.
If this really is what you meant then you've gotta work on the way you word things or on the focus of your posts. While that did come across as a minor point (at least to me) in what you were talking about, it definitely didn't come across as a major one, let alone the focus.
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Re: Twitter Thread

Post by Zha Hong Lang »

Bean wrote:I just stopped by to say I had a good last couple of days at work. That's the first time things have gone this well for me all summer there.
That's good to hear! I had my first internship this summer, which I thought went really nicely.
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Re: Twitter Thread

Post by Mata Hari »

The mobile version of the talk gays has a one-click ban button.

Isn't that interesting?

Almost as interesting as my phone autocorrecting 'talkhaus' to 'talk gays'.
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Re: Twitter Thread

Post by sonicspin »

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Re: Twitter Thread

Post by Ometeotl »

Leet wrote:Image
Throughout your whole ANIME IS FOR PEDOPHILES rants, I never once noticed your avatar and now I can't take you serious at all.
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