The Haus of Talk Thread
- Mata Hari
- Posts: 2522
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- https://matahari.talkhaus.com/
Re: Twitter Thread
Why can't Judith Butler write stuff that's possible to understand
Re: Twitter Thread
Nah the first season is like 49 episodes and the second is ongoing as far as I knowtangeruse wrote:does the first season really have 100+ episodes??Rusbojis wrote:
caarTOONS ARE PLAYING WITH MY EMOTIONS ITS ONLY BEEN THREE DAYS
- Le Neveu de Rameau
- I'm a hoobsie roller; I got robots in my life
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Re: Twitter Thread
She can, when writing for an audience of real people rather than academics (says an aspiring academic). The problem is that in the less empirical of the social sciences, where there's less in the way of the latest studies to point to, one games legitimacy in academic circles by adding on the the existing discourse. This basically guarantees that any text we be largely incomprehensible to someone who isn't already an insider in said field and has been keeping up with said discourse.dr_kraid wrote:Why can't Judith Butler write stuff that's possible to understand
To make matters worse, the discourse in question has largely been dominated by post-structuralist and their descendants for the past few decades, who are notoriously difficult to understand. Anything from the 70s on is basically guaranteed to have a perfunctory reference to either Foucault or Derrida (To be fair, Foucault, at least, is not completely incomprehensible, and his ideas are, in fact applicable to a wide-range of fields...but I've never been able to glean what on earth Derrida is going on about). The whole thing gets ridiculously abstracted, metatextual and self-referential, and starts to resemble more of an elaborate, cliquish and boring social game rather than a proper study of whatever the subject in question is supposed to be.
That said...Butler's honestly not that terrible on the incomprehensibility front. Have you met Harraway yet? When it comes to deliberate opacity in writing style, she really can't be beat. What's worse, she's even stated in interviews that this aspect is 100% deliberate, and justified this reader-contemptuous style, with, in essence, "because it makes me elle-oh-elle, LOL." I'd suggest that boredom is probably the #1 cause of these sorts of academic shenanigans, but then you'd at least expect the resulting texts to be a bit more fun, wouldn't you?
- Mata Hari
- Posts: 2522
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- https://matahari.talkhaus.com/
Re: Twitter Thread
Butler may not be that bad compared to others - I wouldn't know - but she's pretty bad when she's the very first piece of required reading for my very first Gender Equality lecture.
What the fuck were they thinking??????
What the fuck were they thinking??????
- Mata Hari
- Posts: 2522
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- https://matahari.talkhaus.com/
Re: Twitter Thread
In a move that complicates the discussion further, Luce Irigaray argues that women constitute a paradox, if not a contradiction, within the discourse of identity itself. Women are the “sex” which is not “one.” Within a language pervasively masculinist, a phallogocentric language, women constitute the unrepresentable. In other words, women represent the sex that cannot be thought, a linguistic absence and opacity. Within a language that rests on univocal signification, the female sex constitutes the unconstrainable and undesignatable. In this sense, women are the sex which is not “one,” but multiple. In opposition to Beauvoir, for whom women are designated as the Other, Irigaray argues that both the subject and the Other are masculine mainstays of a closed phallogocentric signifying economy that achieves its totalizing goal through the exclusion of the feminine altogether. For Beauvoir, women are the negative of men, the lack against which masculine identity differentiates itself; for Irigaray, that particular dialectic constitutes a system that excludes an entirely different economy of signification. Women are not only represented falsely within the Sartrian frame of signifying-subject and signified-Other, but the falsity of the signification points out the entire structure of representation as inadequate. The sex which is not one, then, provides a point of departure for a criticism of hegemonic Western representation and of the metaphysics of substance that structures the very notion of the subject.
- Wolfolotl
- cryptid
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Re: Twitter Thread
I understand that those are all words in the english language but together I have no fuckin clue what the hell they're supposed to mean
- Clamestarebla
- Clamkind Arch-Highlord
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Re: Twitter Thread
I understood "in"
Train harder, run faster, be stronger, better, evolution never over.
- Blivsey
- forever an obscure pokemons
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- https://blivsey.talkhaus.com/
Re: Twitter Thread
Changed my avatar for the first time in ages. For some reason, I feel like I'm better at imitating other sprite styles than finding my own.
convenient noise thread for stress-relief purposes
- alleightbits
- START PLAY!
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Re: Twitter Thread
Aw. I kinda liked you as a Chimecho.Blivsey wrote:Changed my avatar for the first time in ages. For some reason, I feel like I'm better at imitating other sprite styles than finding my own.
- Blivsey
- forever an obscure pokemons
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Re: Twitter Thread
And I was getting tired of being "Chimecho guy", so I changed it. He's still poking around in my signature, though.8bitgamer123 wrote:Aw. I kinda liked you as a Chimecho.Blivsey wrote:Changed my avatar for the first time in ages. For some reason, I feel like I'm better at imitating other sprite styles than finding my own.
ALSO I MESSED WITH IT AGAIN BECAUSE I'M NEVER SATISFIED
convenient noise thread for stress-relief purposes
- Le Neveu de Rameau
- I'm a hoobsie roller; I got robots in my life
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Re: Twitter Thread
Unfortunately, that's the style of writing one has to navigate in a lot of the modern classics of gender theory, or indeed most social theory in general. But again, if you think that's bad, check out A Cyborg Manifesto. It's all the more frustrating because the first ten paragraphs or so suggest you're in for something completely awesome, but then it degenerates into something from the Postmodernist Essay Generator.*dr_kraid wrote:Butler may not be that bad compared to others - I wouldn't know - but she's pretty bad when she's the very first piece of required reading for my very first Gender Equality lecture.
What the fuck were they thinking??????
(Incidentally, I first encountered this text in a class where we were allowed to pick the texts we'd be working with for the semester from a large compendium, based on title and brief description...Support for this one was almost unanimous, since, as noted, it tricks you into thinking it's going to be awesome (and to be fair, the central idea, insofar as it can be grasped, is a compelling one). We had no one to blame but ourselves for the resulting hair-pulling!)
* Though for the most part this program aims for surface-convincingness, I once got an essay from Anna B. Hamburger of Miskatonic University. Now that's an author we should require for the contemporary humanistic canon...
- Mata Hari
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- https://matahari.talkhaus.com/
Re: Twitter Thread
Using words of the English language is basically akin to talkin' bout dicks 24/7Wolfolotl wrote:I understand that those are all words in the english language but together I have no fuckin clue what the hell they're supposed to mean
- Mata Hari
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- https://matahari.talkhaus.com/
Re: Twitter Thread
Suggesting that men are perceived as the 'default' against which women are defined? That's a penis.
Re: Twitter Thread
We are having a final-day party!!!
ee: mind the lewd, this is s4s culture so that is to be expects
eee: i will blank this post when plug.dj is done for
4e: register if you want
ee: mind the lewd, this is s4s culture so that is to be expects
eee: i will blank this post when plug.dj is done for
4e: register if you want
Last edited by tangy 8 years ago, edited 1 time in total.
Avatar by Loni/sonicspin
raocow wrote:I am being shot at, and I am being advertised petrol at the same time. We must be in America.
- Blivsey
- forever an obscure pokemons
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- Le Neveu de Rameau
- I'm a hoobsie roller; I got robots in my life
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Re: Twitter Thread
Then the proof is in the penis, as there's a pretty long conscious or unconscious tendency to consider men the default and women the variant. How many languages use the word for "man" as the synonym for human, either pretty much completely (French, Icelandic), or at least in certain circumstances (German, English)? How many, by contrast, use the term for "woman" that way? On a non-linguistic level, men are also probably think about themselves specifically as men (rather than human beings in general) far less than women think about themselves as women. Why? Because man being the default, it's unnecessary to specify, and thus men are less frequently reminded that they specifically are men, outside of a comparatively small set of specifically manly situations. Women, in contrast, are pretty much constantly reminded that they are women, because that's the "variant" characteristic, worthy of note. Being a man, as the default, is generally not, unless it's specifically relevant to the situation at hand. I know I personally don't think about being a man most of the time. Because I don't have to. This is the luxury of being the default.dr_kraid wrote:Suggesting that men are perceived as the 'default' against which women are defined? That's a penis.
This is a rather old and not particularly radical idea (these days); in fact, Butler presents it in the above as the sort of feminist establishment view, as represented by Beauvoir. In contrast, she presents an idea by Irigaray, which is basically arguing that women don't actually fit onto this system at all. Now this idea (that is, Irigaray's theory), I honestly can't make head or tail of, though it fits nicely with post-structuralism's "the center cannot hold" motif, don't it? It might help if we were to read the original Irigaray text, but then again, as some of the above examples show...it might not. When you can't distinguish between symbol and signified, subject and object, it gets remarkably difficult to talk about much of anything.
- Sorel
- In the shadows
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Re: Twitter Thread
oh man the peeps in the Forsen channel on Plug DJ play sad songs right now
why Plug DJ
why ;_;
why Plug DJ
why ;_;
Former active member, yearly lurker now.
- Mata Hari
- Posts: 2522
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- https://matahari.talkhaus.com/
Re: Twitter Thread
I get all that, what you're quoting is actually my (comically limited) understanding of Irigaray's theory, which is that the expression of Beauvoir's idea is in and of itself a penisLe Neveu de Rameau wrote:stuff
I appreciate your posting though. thanks man
Re: Twitter Thread
Ivan and his crew are making an alternative to plug.dj
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raocow wrote:I am being shot at, and I am being advertised petrol at the same time. We must be in America.
- raekuul
- 2 Nephi 2:25-27
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Re: Twitter Thread
That is actually the best mental image I've had all day.dr_kraid wrote:I get all that, what you're quoting is actually my (comically limited) understanding of Irigaray's theory, which is that the expression of Beauvoir's idea is in and of itself a penisLe Neveu de Rameau wrote:stuff
I appreciate your posting though. thanks man
Beauvoir: I say a lot of things that nobody understands, and I get paid a hell of a lot of money and fame to do it.
Irigaray: Beauvoir's idea is a dick.
Butler: That... actually make sense.
Irigaray: NO IT DOESN'T THAT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE AN INSULT!
- Miyutwo
- Sexy Beam
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Re: Twitter Thread
Staying up all night to gaze at the blood moon and take crappy pictures with my phone where you can't recognize anything. Good times!
Two images in my sig now? What is the world coming to!?!
Re: Twitter Thread
So, has the Undertale hype worn off already?
SU is making me feel like a lesbian even though I'm a guy and i have question s
SU is making me feel like a lesbian even though I'm a guy and i have question s
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- "HTMI - Hyper Text Markup Interface"
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Re: Twitter Thread
I have to do homework, so I can't look at the blood moon for too long. It was nice to see it while it's there though!Miyutwo wrote:Staying up all night to gaze at the blood moon and take crappy pictures with my phone where you can't recognize anything. Good times!
(Formerly Jayoshi)
- Telamon
- TO PROTECT PENGUIN MACHINE MERGED THE TRAINING MAN.
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Re: Twitter Thread
fucking clouds man. i can hardly see it at all!
Re: Twitter Thread
So I walked around my house to see if there were any good places to see the moon tonight…
…
…
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The trees say no.
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The trees say no.