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Mata Hari
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Re: Twitter Thread

Post by Mata Hari »

Why can't Judith Butler write stuff that's possible to understand
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Re: Twitter Thread

Post by momo »

tangeruse wrote:
Rusbojis wrote:
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caarTOONS ARE PLAYING WITH MY EMOTIONS ITS ONLY BEEN THREE DAYS
does the first season really have 100+ episodes??
Nah the first season is like 49 episodes and the second is ongoing as far as I know
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Le Neveu de Rameau
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Re: Twitter Thread

Post by Le Neveu de Rameau »

dr_kraid wrote:Why can't Judith Butler write stuff that's possible to understand
She can, when writing for an audience of real people rather than academics (says an aspiring academic). The problem is that in the less empirical of the social sciences, where there's less in the way of the latest studies to point to, one games legitimacy in academic circles by adding on the the existing discourse. This basically guarantees that any text we be largely incomprehensible to someone who isn't already an insider in said field and has been keeping up with said discourse.

To make matters worse, the discourse in question has largely been dominated by post-structuralist and their descendants for the past few decades, who are notoriously difficult to understand. Anything from the 70s on is basically guaranteed to have a perfunctory reference to either Foucault or Derrida (To be fair, Foucault, at least, is not completely incomprehensible, and his ideas are, in fact applicable to a wide-range of fields...but I've never been able to glean what on earth Derrida is going on about). The whole thing gets ridiculously abstracted, metatextual and self-referential, and starts to resemble more of an elaborate, cliquish and boring social game rather than a proper study of whatever the subject in question is supposed to be.

That said...Butler's honestly not that terrible on the incomprehensibility front. Have you met Harraway yet? When it comes to deliberate opacity in writing style, she really can't be beat. What's worse, she's even stated in interviews that this aspect is 100% deliberate, and justified this reader-contemptuous style, with, in essence, "because it makes me elle-oh-elle, LOL." I'd suggest that boredom is probably the #1 cause of these sorts of academic shenanigans, but then you'd at least expect the resulting texts to be a bit more fun, wouldn't you?
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Mata Hari
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Re: Twitter Thread

Post by Mata Hari »

Butler may not be that bad compared to others - I wouldn't know - but she's pretty bad when she's the very first piece of required reading for my very first Gender Equality lecture.

What the fuck were they thinking??????
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Re: Twitter Thread

Post by Mata Hari »

In a move that complicates the discussion further, Luce Irigaray argues that women constitute a paradox, if not a contradiction, within the discourse of identity itself. Women are the “sex” which is not “one.” Within a language pervasively masculinist, a phallogocentric language, women constitute the unrepresentable. In other words, women represent the sex that cannot be thought, a linguistic absence and opacity. Within a language that rests on univocal signification, the female sex constitutes the unconstrainable and undesignatable. In this sense, women are the sex which is not “one,” but multiple. In opposition to Beauvoir, for whom women are designated as the Other, Irigaray argues that both the subject and the Other are masculine mainstays of a closed phallogocentric signifying economy that achieves its totalizing goal through the exclusion of the feminine altogether. For Beauvoir, women are the negative of men, the lack against which masculine identity differentiates itself; for Irigaray, that particular dialectic constitutes a system that excludes an entirely different economy of signification. Women are not only represented falsely within the Sartrian frame of signifying-subject and signified-Other, but the falsity of the signification points out the entire structure of representation as inadequate. The sex which is not one, then, provides a point of departure for a criticism of hegemonic Western representation and of the metaphysics of substance that structures the very notion of the subject.

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Re: Twitter Thread

Post by Wolfolotl »

I understand that those are all words in the english language but together I have no fuckin clue what the hell they're supposed to mean
:nb_pride:
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Re: Twitter Thread

Post by Clamestarebla »

I understood "in"
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Re: Twitter Thread

Post by Blivsey »

Changed my avatar for the first time in ages. For some reason, I feel like I'm better at imitating other sprite styles than finding my own.
convenient noise thread for stress-relief purposes
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Re: Twitter Thread

Post by alleightbits »

Blivsey wrote:Changed my avatar for the first time in ages. For some reason, I feel like I'm better at imitating other sprite styles than finding my own.
Aw. I kinda liked you as a Chimecho.
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Re: Twitter Thread

Post by Blivsey »

8bitgamer123 wrote:
Blivsey wrote:Changed my avatar for the first time in ages. For some reason, I feel like I'm better at imitating other sprite styles than finding my own.
Aw. I kinda liked you as a Chimecho.
And I was getting tired of being "Chimecho guy", so I changed it. He's still poking around in my signature, though.

ALSO I MESSED WITH IT AGAIN BECAUSE I'M NEVER SATISFIED
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Le Neveu de Rameau
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Re: Twitter Thread

Post by Le Neveu de Rameau »

dr_kraid wrote:Butler may not be that bad compared to others - I wouldn't know - but she's pretty bad when she's the very first piece of required reading for my very first Gender Equality lecture.

What the fuck were they thinking??????
Unfortunately, that's the style of writing one has to navigate in a lot of the modern classics of gender theory, or indeed most social theory in general. But again, if you think that's bad, check out A Cyborg Manifesto. It's all the more frustrating because the first ten paragraphs or so suggest you're in for something completely awesome, but then it degenerates into something from the Postmodernist Essay Generator.*

(Incidentally, I first encountered this text in a class where we were allowed to pick the texts we'd be working with for the semester from a large compendium, based on title and brief description...Support for this one was almost unanimous, since, as noted, it tricks you into thinking it's going to be awesome (and to be fair, the central idea, insofar as it can be grasped, is a compelling one). We had no one to blame but ourselves for the resulting hair-pulling!)

* Though for the most part this program aims for surface-convincingness, I once got an essay from Anna B. Hamburger of Miskatonic University. Now that's an author we should require for the contemporary humanistic canon...
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Re: Twitter Thread

Post by Mata Hari »

Wolfolotl wrote:I understand that those are all words in the english language but together I have no fuckin clue what the hell they're supposed to mean
Using words of the English language is basically akin to talkin' bout dicks 24/7
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Re: Twitter Thread

Post by Mata Hari »

Suggesting that men are perceived as the 'default' against which women are defined? That's a penis.
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Re: Twitter Thread

Post by tangy »

We are having a final-day party!!!

ee: mind the lewd, this is s4s culture so that is to be expects

eee: i will blank this post when plug.dj is done for

4e: register if you want
Last edited by tangy 8 years ago, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Twitter Thread

Post by Blivsey »

convenient noise thread for stress-relief purposes
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Re: Twitter Thread

Post by Le Neveu de Rameau »

dr_kraid wrote:Suggesting that men are perceived as the 'default' against which women are defined? That's a penis.
Then the proof is in the penis, as there's a pretty long conscious or unconscious tendency to consider men the default and women the variant. How many languages use the word for "man" as the synonym for human, either pretty much completely (French, Icelandic), or at least in certain circumstances (German, English)? How many, by contrast, use the term for "woman" that way? On a non-linguistic level, men are also probably think about themselves specifically as men (rather than human beings in general) far less than women think about themselves as women. Why? Because man being the default, it's unnecessary to specify, and thus men are less frequently reminded that they specifically are men, outside of a comparatively small set of specifically manly situations. Women, in contrast, are pretty much constantly reminded that they are women, because that's the "variant" characteristic, worthy of note. Being a man, as the default, is generally not, unless it's specifically relevant to the situation at hand. I know I personally don't think about being a man most of the time. Because I don't have to. This is the luxury of being the default.

This is a rather old and not particularly radical idea (these days); in fact, Butler presents it in the above as the sort of feminist establishment view, as represented by Beauvoir. In contrast, she presents an idea by Irigaray, which is basically arguing that women don't actually fit onto this system at all. Now this idea (that is, Irigaray's theory), I honestly can't make head or tail of, though it fits nicely with post-structuralism's "the center cannot hold" motif, don't it? It might help if we were to read the original Irigaray text, but then again, as some of the above examples show...it might not. When you can't distinguish between symbol and signified, subject and object, it gets remarkably difficult to talk about much of anything.
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Re: Twitter Thread

Post by Sorel »

oh man the peeps in the Forsen channel on Plug DJ play sad songs right now

why Plug DJ

why ;_;
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Re: Twitter Thread

Post by Mata Hari »

Le Neveu de Rameau wrote:stuff
I get all that, what you're quoting is actually my (comically limited) understanding of Irigaray's theory, which is that the expression of Beauvoir's idea is in and of itself a penis

I appreciate your posting though. thanks man
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Re: Twitter Thread

Post by tangy »

Ivan and his crew are making an alternative to plug.dj
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Re: Twitter Thread

Post by raekuul »

dr_kraid wrote:
Le Neveu de Rameau wrote:stuff
I get all that, what you're quoting is actually my (comically limited) understanding of Irigaray's theory, which is that the expression of Beauvoir's idea is in and of itself a penis

I appreciate your posting though. thanks man
That is actually the best mental image I've had all day.

Beauvoir: I say a lot of things that nobody understands, and I get paid a hell of a lot of money and fame to do it.
Irigaray: Beauvoir's idea is a dick.
Butler: That... actually make sense.
Irigaray: NO IT DOESN'T THAT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE AN INSULT!
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Re: Twitter Thread

Post by Miyutwo »

Staying up all night to gaze at the blood moon and take crappy pictures with my phone where you can't recognize anything. Good times!
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Two images in my sig now? What is the world coming to!?!
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Re: Twitter Thread

Post by momo »

So, has the Undertale hype worn off already?

SU is making me feel like a lesbian even though I'm a guy and i have question s
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Re: Twitter Thread

Post by Zha Hong Lang »

Miyutwo wrote:Staying up all night to gaze at the blood moon and take crappy pictures with my phone where you can't recognize anything. Good times!
I have to do homework, so I can't look at the blood moon for too long. It was nice to see it while it's there though!
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Re: Twitter Thread

Post by Telamon »

fucking clouds man. i can hardly see it at all!
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Re: Twitter Thread

Post by No Lynch »

So I walked around my house to see if there were any good places to see the moon tonight…







The trees say no.
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