Grievances Discussion Thread

[raocow]

I had no idea about the doxx thing until just a few minutes ago and that's just sad. Like I can't wrap my mind around someone from talkhaus (well, was from talkhaus) would do that... It's like what makes someone do something so evil? What did I do to attract someone who would do such a thing...

And it sucks because some peeps feel unsafe due to the actions of what seems to be the very loud voice of a handful of people (that are now or being banned)

I feel responsible but I don't know what to do.

[devil†zukin]

i just wanted to clarify that i did not mean to imply that darkychao doxxed me

i'm not talking about this in public and i'd appreciate if nobody else did either, thanks

you can talk about other recent talkhaus related events though im not trying to prevent that

[cats-on-ice]

I had no idea about the doxx thing until just a few minutes ago and that's just sad. Like I can't wrap my mind around someone from talkhaus (well, was from talkhaus) would do that... It's like what makes someone do something so evil? What did I do to attract someone who would do such a thing...

And it sucks because some peeps feel unsafe due to the actions of what seems to be the very loud voice of a handful of people (that are now or being banned)

I feel responsible but I don't know what to do.

Every house has its share of cockroaches. Rena is being a very effective boot. I think it's best to play this by ear and anyone with genuine animosity and discriminatory behavior needs to be warned or further dealt with.
As for the doxxing.. There's not much we can do..


Edit: Sorry rena, didn't know you didn't want it discussed.

[Mata Hari]

raocow you cannot possibly blame yourself for any of this. All you did was talk nonsense while playing SMW romhacks. I don't think anyone could say that encourages antisocial behaviour.

[Kapus]

I had no idea about the doxx thing until just a few minutes ago and that's just sad. Like I can't wrap my mind around someone from talkhaus (well, was from talkhaus) would do that... It's like what makes someone do something so evil? What did I do to attract someone who would do such a thing...

And it sucks because some peeps feel unsafe due to the actions of what seems to be the very loud voice of a handful of people (that are now or being banned)

I feel responsible but I don't know what to do.

To be honest, I think we're witnessing the aftermath right now more than anything. I'm not sure if there's a whole lot to do at this point--the majority of the people considered problematic (as far as I know, anyway) have been removed and people are just lamenting at the general crap that's taken place. I guess making some sort of psa about people treating each other with more respect would be nice, but I'm honestly not sure if there's much more action to be taken, and I don't think you're really responsible for it.

[Wolfolotl]

edit: misconstrued latest post; carry on

[Frozelar]

I may be blind, but I fail to see any form of doxxing whatsoever from darky or Clam. Are we ever going to get any clarification on this? I mean, I'm sure Rena had good reasons for banning them, r... right?
Oh a lot more things were posted since writing this
Well so, what, darkychao was banned for making a mostly joking talkhaus thing on 8chan? What?

And like, I wasn't necessarily very in the loop about when and what Septentrion got banned for, but as I was looking I found this post.
Why was he warned? He... elaborated on his opinion which was different from that of others?
please don't hate me

[Ashan]

What the hell happened while I was beating Snowhead temple?

I'll go ahead and clarify this, although it should be pretty obvious: regardless of whether I've disagreed with the moderation team on certain issues, if someone that also disagreed did anything incredibly stupid like doxxing, then myself and others don't condone that cause that ain't cool.
Just want to throw that out there cause I feel like this is could make myself and others look bad.

[zmonbobbo]

I hate to just heap my vote onto the "clarification" thing, and I don't want to openly question mods at all, but yeah, I'm just curious as to the behind-the-scenes stuff that led to some of the recent bannings. Transphobia, constant trolling, anything like that? Sure, that needs to be banned. But at least from what I've seen, Clam didn't really do any of that, and I didn't really see Darkychao post enough to know about his back story.

Honestly, though, I have no grievances towards anyone. If it weren't for Darky's weird thread, I feel like everything was pretty much dying down anyway, and everyone was in a relative state of peace.

[cats-on-ice]

I know you guys want to talk about it, but rena's specifically said she doesn't want anyone discussing the doxxing here, or anywhere else for that matter.

[devil†zukin]

I hate to just heap my vote onto the "clarification" thing, and I don't want to openly question mods at all, but yeah, I'm just curious as to the behind-the-scenes stuff that led to some of the recent bannings. Transphobia, constant trolling, anything like that? Sure, that needs to be banned. But at least from what I've seen, Clam didn't really do any of that, and I didn't really see Darkychao post enough to know about his back story.

Honestly, though, I have no grievances towards anyone. If it weren't for Darky's weird thread, I feel like everything was pretty much dying down anyway, and everyone was in a relative state of peace.

no behind the scenes stuff, i've only banned about 4 ppl ever (and mostly in the last 2 days too) and it's all been very open and public (except darky and clam)

as for them they just got accidentally implicated and im sorry they got banned (they're back now but clem's having computer problems)

e: meant to say that clem's having computer troubles** not darky

[Sorel]

I don't even know what to think anymore... just a few days ago, this place was still happy, everything was fine...

And just in a matter of a few days... damn, I'm just diappointed by the behaviour of some users... like, I don't even get why.

The only thing I can think of now is... "why did it come to this?"... but I know no one can answer that.

*sigh* man it's so sad for me. Very sad. :(

[Bwarch]

Oh, cool. Clam's okay~

[raocow]

yeah, Clam was the one that made me metaphorically arc an eyebrow !

[Leet]

this thread reminds me of something somewhere in my memories that i dont know entirely what + it makes me uncomfortable because of that

i cant place it at all but its messing me up

this was a really useless post to make but too bad

[Mata Hari]

...So is there still anything to talk about?

[YelseyKing]

You know, one other thing that just struck me as particularly sad about this whole affair... Not long ago, someone started a thread about autism. People talking about their experiences, the reactions of others, that sort of thing. It didn't last terribly long, but it remained civil throughout, with even those who didn't have autism or Asperger's talking calmly and rationally. That thread really made me believe Talkhaus was a safe haven for open minds and open discussion; it gave me some very good vibes, and just generally felt positive.

It's just sad, then, that the whole pronouns/gender thread went so sourly. What could have been another enlightening discussion of an issue that doesn't get a lot of attention (and which very much requires just as much empathy and understanding) just devolved into a big fracas that resulted in a number of people either leaving out of fear and disgust, or getting banned. While I very much appreciate that the autism thread didn't blow up, why this one? What was so drastically different about *this* issue that it brought out such an ugly side of many people here? If it was a subject that made someone uncomfortable, they could simply have not posted in the thread at all, and no one would've thought less of them.

What happened last weekend was just a tragedy in so many ways... And I hope, if nothing else, we can collectively learn from it.

[Leet]

well for one it definitely isnt a coincidence or anything, sigh

[Willhart]

Loosing Darkychao would have been somewhat harsh too, considering they are half of the a2xt plot and writing team.

[Octagon]

What was so drastically different about *this* issue that it brought out such an ugly side of many people here? If it was a subject that made someone uncomfortable, they could simply have not posted in the thread at all, and no one would've thought less of them

This is a very very charged topic that has caused many schisms before.
This course of events was typical: some people consider others' identities a political threat, and these others don't like having their identities attacked in turn. And while my sympathy leans strongly towards the second group, I understand how both sides come to their positions.
I love that the pronoun field exists (what a great and simple way to get rid of awkwardness and accidental misgendering), but it was bound to stir up these latent disputes that turned out to exist.

[Blivsey]

You know, one other thing that just struck me as particularly sad about this whole affair... Not long ago, someone started a thread about autism. People talking about their experiences, the reactions of others, that sort of thing. It didn't last terribly long, but it remained civil throughout, with even those who didn't have autism or Asperger's talking calmly and rationally. That thread really made me believe Talkhaus was a safe haven for open minds and open discussion; it gave me some very good vibes, and just generally felt positive.

Hi, that was my thread and I'm really glad it turned out how it did. People leveled their opinions rationally in that thread and I was honestly impressed (despite what I said in the op about being confident the talkhaus could handle it).

Then this happened.

I've stated my positions elsewhere and doing it again here would just sound like me trying to 'look good', so I won't bother.

But I will say this one more time, and pardon me: I don't care what you are, or what you identify as- it doesn't harm me, and more power to you for being yourself. Just don't be a fuckwad about it.

[Leet]

Loosing Darkychao would have been somewhat harsh too, considering they are half of the a2xt plot and writing team.

1) content production does not counteract your behavior, treating content producers with leniency about the rules is like in real life where, say, football players in some small towns barely ever get in legal trouble

2) honestly, im sorry but, losing his writing for a2xt would not be a big loss. i did a post in the plot thread a while back where i basically pointed out a ton of confusing and plot-hole-y moments that im surprised few people ever noticed. not that it's a big deal since the gameplay is what carries the game, but if youre going to have a plot with a ton of long cutscenes... it might as well make sense! ya know?

under the spoiler: irrelevant tangentially-related thing that doesn't really matter

speaking of darkychao, this is very old and very unimportant to complain about, but you guys know the level Majestic Tower from ASMBXT? my level? you know how the transition from door to pipe is kind of buggy, putting you in a weird black screen for a second which has malfunctioned in some LPs I've seen? that leaves weirdo black squares around the pipes in the last room? that wasn't me. originally you'd just go up an invisible pipe when you go in the doors, and although that looks buggy too, i certainly can't see that the changes made afterwards were an improvement... :s i didn't use the talkhaus regularly at the time so i didn't say anything about it during the LP.

[ano0maly]

It's hard for me to concentrate without expressing this grievance, so here goes.

I would like the community to tone down on ganging up on someone when disputing what the someone said. I've noted back in the "Free/Libre" discussion this point: I don't like malicious bullying and having a witch-hunt mentality. It's one thing to express disapproval and disagree, but people doing so need to look at themselves and ask whether they're handling it correctly. When they lose control, I see posts making fun of others, taking things out of context, or picking out mistakes while missing the intended points. It really turns me off and makes it difficult for me to take those posters seriously.

And this isn't my sentiment alone; several people I have talked to expressed this same concern.

[Leet]

A sentence's parts all exist, though. If somebody says something blatantly addressable, it can take precedence over their "main point". I don't think I need to provide an example.

[ano0maly]

If you have to address something then go ahead, but don't use it as an excuse to ignore the message of the post. That's when people start talking over each other and the sequence of the discussion breaks down.