About Pronouns and Nounself Pronouns

[YelseyKing]

I didn't want to get involved in this thread, but I feel like I have to point out that, yes, parodies and mockeries *can* cloud the opinions of the uninformed. I'm not familiar at all with nounself and how often trolls abuse it, so I won't go there...

Instead, I'll talk about Asperger's Syndrome, an actual, and often debilitating, mental disorder that millions -- including myself -- suffer from... but which is absolutely embarrassing to admit you have, especially online. Not only because of its very parodyable name, but because 4chan has effectively turned it into a meme, shorthand for "I'm an insufferable asshole and I have trouble talking to girls". I don't know how many people actually falsely claim they have it in order to justify being a jerk, but a lot of the internet appears to have concluded that it's "everyone". As one might expect, as a result of this, it's discouragingly difficult to have serious discussions about it anywhere, much less getting people to understand or sympathize, because, at the least it *feels* like, more people are familiar with the *parodies* of AS than the disorder itself.

I'm not saying this is necessarily the same thing. But it's definitely an example of how "parody" can literally override the truth of an important, delicate subject.

[sonicspin]

However, I must ask - I'm not sure I understand the difference between pronouns and nounself pronouns? I've not come across nounself pronouns before I must say. What are they and what is an example, if you don't mind?

nounself is quite literally,
noun + self, noun + is/er (if male or female) and, noun
equivalents to normal pronouns are
myself, theirs, they
a satirical example is my flair

[GlitchedGhost]

However, I must ask - I'm not sure I understand the difference between pronouns and nounself pronouns? I've not come across nounself pronouns before I must say. What are they and what is an example, if you don't mind?

I know you didn't ask me, but I can answer.

There's the normal pronouns 'he', 'she', and 'they', that are most commonplace.

There's now also neopronouns, which are newer, gender neutral ones that some non-binary people are trying to normalize, like the ones in Wolfolotl's pronoun box, and 'ze/zem/zyrs', and others like it. (That's probably an incorrect example, I'm fairly out of the loop with neopronouns, but Wolfolotl's is a good example of neopronouns.)

And then there's nounself pronouns, like 'cat/cats/catself', or 'fae/faes/faeself'. Someone believes they're a certain thing, like a bunny, so they're going to use the pronouns of 'bun/buns/bunself', because it's their gender now. It's basically slapping a noun in front of 'self' and saying it's a pronoun. It doesn't make sense in real life.

edit: ninja'd

[Mata Hari]

you can be royalty or an ancient god or one of the stars of the infinite galaxies in space

No! You can't! Because this is the real world! The one that real human beings live in! You can be male or female or gender neutral but you can't be fucking Harry Potter! Real people have real difficulty with their position in the real world without people on the Internet making shit up and pretending it's true. My identity is not equivalent to somebody claiming to be a hamster.

[Money]

It alienates potential supporters, it alienates trans people, and it creates an easy target for people who are actively trying to be oppressive.

Just bumming in here to confirm that this is true.
I've seen far too many people who go "mayonnaise is my gender #triggered" even when simple binary transitioning gets brought up in a conversation. I am aware that people just be arseholes too at (many) times and ignorance is everywhere but we all gotta do the effort to kill this trend.

literally the only people who do that are trolls. y'all are doing this victim-blamey thing where you're pointing at the actions of the trolls and telling the trans people that they're the ones that caused this and this is why they can never ever have things that make them happy

I mean I guess if you consider the general ideas of society as a whole to be "trolls" then you're right. It's just kinda unfortunate that we're trying to actually make them take trans issues seriously so they can stop being oppressive, but then nounself pronouners are over here burning the candle at both ends for the sake of being "cute" or "sticking it to the man" or whatever.

[Oddwrath]

This thread is stupid. Everybody who posted in this thread is stupid. Including me, because I've actually bothered to post here.
I mean, is this seriously still going on? It's been more than 2 days!

[Unaniem]

you're pointing at the actions of the trolls and telling the trans people that they're the ones that caused this and this is why they can never ever have things that make them happy

I never said that.
I said that it's better to not encourage such 'notorious' gender pronouns seeing how they're bound to alienate the people you're still sharing the globe with in the end. That trolls play a big role of the whole reason they do alienate people is obvious, but it is how it is and I'd think it would be a better choice to not add fuel to the already gigantic fire (at the very least wait until a moment that transgenderism as a whole is more of an accepted concept than it is right now).

In the end I'm not forcing you to do anything though, just my two cents on the matter.
The one thing that I am 100% certain on in my life is that I don't the solution to every single little thing, so yeah. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

EDIT: A thing worth mentioning before I get a buzzword thrown at me; I myself don't give two poops about whatever you decide you identify with. You identify a large Oak tree? Okay, I guess. Doesn't affect me in any way so why should I be bothered about it? Whether or not it'll get you accepted in society any quicker goes beyond my power and opinions, though (not meant passive aggressively if it came off like that, I literally wouldn't know).

[Wolfolotl]

it's kinda hell to quote and edit quotes here on my 3DS
Horikawa, I didn't look at those studies yet, but I personally feel that birth assignment should ideally play no role in people discovering who they are. and nounself pronouns are a more recent type of neopronouns with a basis in nouns, hence the name. they tend to be pretty concise in-set, and a lotta the base words aren't too clunky overall. a set I made with the base word "magic" is mag/magic/magis/magicself, with magis being the possessive, magic being this set's "them", et cetera. I love new pronouns and get enthusiastic about them a lot
otherkin feelings and gender feelings can often intermingle for reasons like, I think it was shepmeister? correct me if I'm wrong, said. they are not inherently linked, but they can be, and in either case you shouldn't shame someone for using nounself pronouns at all
dr kraid, please go fuck yourself
on the topic of respectability and legitimacy of trans and nonbinary people (please stop including sexualities in this, this really has nothing to do with anything but the T and the NB) it's, again, how well you can cater to the oppressors so they see you as respectable and deserving of rights. it's kinda really fucked up once you think deeper into it, as it's basically more "how can I change myself to be hurt less by the system" than "the system hurts us, let's tear it apart". if someone doesn't respect you for being trans or nonbinary than their "excuse", be it religion, some pretentious bio major stuff, or Those Evil Adorable Nounself Pronouns, doesn't excuse the fact that they are a transphobe. blaming trans kids who are more out there than you are for transphobes being transphobes is victim blaming. these kids get told, both by cis people and other trans people subscribed to this harmful ideology, that their identities aren't real, their pronouns aren't gonna be used because they're too fun and happy, and additionally, they're told that they cause all that happens to them just for expressing their genders in a way they feel suits them best. that's really fucked up! don't do that!!
anyways for anyone who read this whole thing, thank you, and I hope you see a really nice plant today

[Wolfolotl]

birth assignment is what the doctors said you were when you were born, and it's basically you being gendered by others before you've even formed a concept of who you are yourself. if it's brain talk, gendering brains is still kinda not cool. your bod is yours, it's whatever gender you are, and simply telling someone that their brain is automatically exactly this one way for their genitalia isn't that great at all.
speaking of which, let's please abolish saying "physical sex" and misgendering someone's body. if someone's a lady, she's a lady, and even if she has a penis she's a lady and you have no right to call any of her a man

[InsaneIntentions1]

I have yet to enjoy your presence in the slightest

[GlitchedGhost]

You have basically ignored everything I have said, and are constantly going around in a circle, repeating yourself like a broken record.
For the third time, nounself pronouns DO. NOT. WORK. in the English language for the purpose of a pronoun. 'Magicself' would be extremely hard to use in everyday speech. It's really hard with nounself pronouns to actually be able to substitute in place of regular pronouns.
Your otherkin beliefs are completely separate from your gender. Just because someone may be an otherkin, doesn't mean that it's because of their god damn gender.
You people with your nounself pronouns are hurting every single trans and non-binary person out there trying to get acknowledged as real humans by the rest of the human race, because your 'spiritual belief' apparently needs to be dictated by what pronouns you use.
When you are born, the doctor dictates your gender based on your genitalia, yes. But why? A fucking four month old cannot decide what gender they want to be; they can't even talk. The most they understand is that 'I need to poop, let's poop here,' or 'I'm hungry, I'm going to cry until I get fed.'

their pronouns aren't gonna be used because they're too fun and happy

Pronouns are not something 'fun' and 'happy'. They are there as a placeholder for nouns, not to put a noun in it and make it more troublesome to say than the original word. Calling them 'fun' and 'happy' and 'cute' is just as bad as calling them 'trendy'.

I don't like insulting people, but you are like talking to a brick wall. You ignore what we've tried to present to you, and you keep going off on other tangents.

[Leet]

50 Cis People Yell at Something that Didn't Actually Happen - What Happened Next May Surprise You

once again, i may not realllly like nounself pronouns at an aesthetic level but all of you are getting mad mostly at trolls. the fact that some (and by some i mean very, very, very, very few) trans people have chosen to embrace what people made up to hurt them is only fair i guess

[GlitchedGhost]

50 Cis People Yell at Something that Didn't Actually Happen - What Happened Next May Surprise You

It's a terrible assumption to assume everyone here is cis.
At least I didn't sit there and insult people like Wolfolol.

edit:

once again, i may not realllly like nounself pronouns at an aesthetic level but all of you are getting mad mostly at trolls. the fact that some (and by some i mean very, very, very, very few) trans people have chosen to embrace what people made up to hurt them is only fair i guess

These people honestly believe that nounself pronouns are a legitimate way to identify themselves. There are cis and trans/nb people who will use these pronouns just to 'fit in.'
Even if it is a small group of people, they are EXTREMELY loud and hurt the community that's trying to get real validation.

Also, if you're saying that everyone who uses/believes in nounself pronouns are all trolls, then wouldn't Wolfolotl be a troll?

[Leet]

wow i literally do not care how polite people are in this context

like what does this accomplished? "xe insulted me" doesn't contribute anything to this

e: you edited your post and i would respond to that too but i dont have time but know that i am not ignoring that part of your post

[Doctor Shemp]

50 Cis People Yell at Something that Didn't Actually Happen - What Happened Next May Surprise You

So GlitchedGhost's roommate isn't really nonbinary at all? Because you and Wofolotl have ignored all of those posts repeatedly.

[GlitchedGhost]

wow i literally do not care how polite people are in this context

like what does this accomplished? "xe insulted me" doesn't contribute anything to this

e: you edited your post and i would respond to that too but i dont have time but know that i am not ignoring that part of your post

I started off trying to be polite, because yelling insults gets no where. There's no point sitting there and insulting the other party when that person is trying to be polite and calm about it. It's basically like a kid sticking their fingers in their ears and not listening because they don't like something.

And I ended up editing my post because you edited yours, and then you posted before I could post my edit, lol.

[KobaBeach]

50 Cis People Yell at Something that Didn't Actually Happen - What Happened Next May Surprise You

So GlitchedGhost's roommate isn't really nonbinary at all? Because you and Wofolotl have ignored all of those posts repeatedly.

even if her roommate is trans, glitched doesn't have any place discussing this as she is cis

also, shemp, you do not have a place in this discussion either (and tbh neither do i)
you're literally shitposting at this point and not really furthering the discussion at all

please just go back to complaining about the unjust campaign to label you as needing to leave or whatever

[sonicspin]

this thread could have perfectly had GOOD DISCUSSION, but now it'll go to the traaash

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PD: apparently didn't post this
PPD: empathy is a emotion that exists
PS: more reaction images

[void]

essentially what i'm getting here:

if you use nounself pronouns you're a "bad trans" and are hurting yourself and others for identifying comfortably to your individual perceptions and feelings on gender that is also tied to our nonhuman identity

like, it's also worth noting, the way one individual sees gender may be entirely different to another's
and sometimes, those with nounself dislike the LGBT+ community because of their attitude about neopronouns and nounself
so also worth remembering there are LGBT+ problems, but the LGBT+ community is on a different level and can be very Problems to even those who fall outside of the gender binary

some others believe gender and nonhuman belief are definitely not mutually exclusive matters
like, idk, as someone extremely gender apathetic and vibes heavily with being a deity for multiple reasons

and like, i'll admit english is Really fucked up
but you're also expecting others to stick to these really specific brackets of language and kinda being stuck on it and not wanting it to move forward

like yeah nounself might not roll off the tongue easily for most, but if we continue to normalize it, it'll be eventually, a non-issue
like we can essentially think that like, nounself pronouns are like in a beta-stage of development? it's gonna take some work to polish its use in english, but it's definitely not unrealistic to want it to be normalized

i dunno, this post of mine might just be a mess in general
but it's also kind of just exclusionary to assume the what one person thinks of gender applies to everyone else

and ofc nounself is really english-centric and we can't expect everyone to understand it entirely if they have learning disabilities or do not have english as their first language and so on, but, otherwise

[GlitchedGhost]

To clarify things, because I received a PM about it: The ONLY time my roommate posted was the post where it stated were her words (back on the first page), and I posted it for her as she doesn't have an account. I have been posting myself since then.

I edited the OP to say this as well.

[raocow]

what are you guys even doing.

Like serious, everyone, on both sides of the discussion, drop it. Y'all are doing a bad job at convincing the other side (and I'm one of the sides) and all it's doing is causing disagrement, enough so that I've been privately communicated about this.

So chill, alright?

[devil†zukin]

if you want to tell people they can't identify a certain way, or tell people what their issues are despite not having them yourself, do it somewhere else please