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How much is a billion?

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ztarwuff
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How much is a billion?

Post by ztarwuff »




Given what the video says, I'm interested in what raocow thinks a billion is. I, despite being born ten years after the UK adopted the American way, was always under the impression that billion meant million million. I prefer it that way. The short system makes no sense to me.

Good thing I never had the need to use the word, billion.
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Re: How much is a billion?

Post by Snakebite969 »

1x10^9

Now let's see if the video says differently
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Re: How much is a billion?

Post by Falky »

I use the long scale billion. I agree that the short scale doesn't make sense.
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Re: How much is a billion?

Post by ano0maly »

Huh, that's pretty interesting, and I get the logic behind the long system.

I'm comfortable with the short system though because a thousand is where it's treated as a unit where larger numbers up to 1 million are treated as multiples of 1000. Ideally, to complete the long system you would need a separate name for 100000 and 10000 just like there's a "thousand" instead of calling it "ten hundred".
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Re: How much is a billion?

Post by Unaniem »

Long system is used over here in Dutchland.

Imagine my shock back when I played MMO's as a stupid 13/14-year old and I read on a strategy website a boss has a billion HP.

EDIT: The people in this comment section are surprisingly pissed.
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Re: How much is a billion?

Post by MercuryPenny »

Who cares, it's just numbers

But seriously, this comment (WARNING: HUGE):
Clueless Brits who cannot understand the sense of the short system. Let me explain it then:

In English, the original naming of numbers ends at 1000. So each place has a name up to 1000, (units, tens, hundreds, thousands). Then it ends. So the full 'life' of numbers ends at 1000. Since 1000 is the end of numbering, it is in the greek an eon. The furthest 'life' of the numbers.

From there we count how many thousands. 1, 2, up to 999 thousand.
So we say one hundred thousand meaning that there are (100) thousands
After that it just sounds funny to say a thousand thousand, So a name was invented for (1000) thousands,
"milli" means 1000. For example there are 1000 millimeters in a meter.
Milli (means 1000) eon (means 1000)
So, milli eon means (1000) thousands = million
Now, continuing to count thousands, we get to (1000 x 1000) thousands, so how many thousands are there? Since our count of how many thousands we have says thousand twice (1000 x 1000) we say bi meaning twice. Therefore lets name it bi-milli (twice thousand) ion (thousand) which is condensed to billion.
So, billion means (thousand thousand) thousands. Because we are naming it based on how many thousands we have (and NOT the TOTAL power of 1000 the number is), and in this case we have (thousand thousand) thousands, thus 'thousand said twice' worth of thousands.
The brits forget that English numbers ended at 1000, and after that we are counting how many thousands we have.
From there the logic continues:
(thousand thousand thousand) thousands = (tri milli) eon = trillion
(thousand thousand thousand thousand) thousands = (quadra milli) eon = quadrillion.

Since those in England tend to be lacking in sense or in education, they forget such things from history, So they do not get that the numbers are named based on how many thousands we have, not based on what power 1000 is brought to to get the final number. So, the total power of 1000's will be 1000 to the prefix power (the count of how many thousands) + 1 (for the thousand, which is that which is being counted by the name itself).
So, a centillion is (thousand thousand .....repeated 100 times) thousands. = 1000 ^ (100+1).

NOW, the long system. They think the number name makes sense. Look at "billion. " It is bi (twice) lli (from milli meaning thousand) on (from eon meaning thousand) which means thousand thousand thousand. So how on earth does the name (thousand thousand thousand) = (thousand thousand thousand thousand) which is the long form idea of what it should be.
They say the name is based on counting millions, they forget that the name is based on counting milli's,(thousands) then the name ends with eon (thousand)

And no comments pointing out the obvious change in the use of aeon, how it is now used to refer to 1,000,000 instead of 1,000. When understanding a name, one has to understand the thinking of those who named something, not the thinking today. And to them the full "life" (ie aeon) of numbers was to 1000.
But if you take eon to mean 1,000,000 and try to rethink the names, then a "milli-eon" or "million" would be 1000 x 1,000,000 which is wrong. and a billion would be 1000 x 1000 x 1,000,000 which matches the long system. Then a trillion would be 1000 x 1000 x 1000 x 1,000,000 which does not match again. So if you take eon to mean 1,000,000, then the long system would be wrong with "million" right with "billion" and wrong with "trillion, quadrillion, etc."
I found this interesting and I think everyone should not even care at all.
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Re: How much is a billion?

Post by ztarwuff »

ano0maly wrote:Huh, that's pretty interesting, and I get the logic behind the long system.

I'm comfortable with the short system though because a thousand is where it's treated as a unit where larger numbers up to 1 million are treated as multiples of 1000.
I think the dispute with the short system is that the naming doesn't match. Tri is three, but trillion is a thousand to the power of four, not three. I've read the huge comment in the video's comment section, but that guy's just grasping at straws.

Doesn't matter in the end, so long as we're all using the same system. The only problem is, we're not all using the same system.
Ideally, to complete the long system you would need a separate name for 100000 and 10000 just like there's a "thousand" instead of calling it "ten hundred".
Yeah, but that's true for the short system too. The Chinese have a system that covers that, though..
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Re: How much is a billion?

Post by Lunikyuu »

I grew up with the short system (billion = 10^9), but I remember always wondering why a billion, trillion, quadrillion, etc. wasn't in powers of millions like the name suggested until I learned that was actually a thing in a different system (I think from that same video even). I think the long system makes more sense, but I think I'll still instictively use the short system since it's what I'm used to using and it's what everyone over here uses.
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How much is a billion?

Post by Sorel »

In germany, we got "millionen" (1.000.000), "milliarden" (1.000.000.000), then "billionen" (1.000.000.000.000) and so on
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Re: How much is a billion?

Post by Doctor Shemp »

I use the short system because everyone else here does and it's stupid to argue what the numbers mean when you could analyse the numbers instead. For example, when the government recently announced that it would cut back health & education spending by at least $60 billion, no-one was asking them whether they meant $60000000000000 or $60000000000 because everyone knows they meant the latter and it's no time to be pedantic about that.
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Re: How much is a billion?

Post by july »

I use the short system. The way I always interpreted the naming was that a "million" was the first "-llion" after a thousand, a "billion" was second and so had "bi-", a "trillion" was third and got "tri-", etc. The long system honestly makes a bit more sense, but yeah, if I were to start using the long system all of a sudden most people would misunderstand me. And even if the short system's names are somehow technically "wrong", what does it matter? That happens all the time. September hasn't been the seventh month for a long time.
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Re: How much is a billion?

Post by Frozelar »

That's... weird. I'm just really surprised that I haven't heard about that ever before. I'm even more surprised that there haven't been a billion issues related to the different meanings of the word (oh how punny). Like for example, someone in America paying someone in Europe a billion dollars and then the European guy receiving a different amount than he was expecting. If that makes sense.

Now I'll never know what people are actually talking about when they say a billion!! My life is ruined, thanks a lot
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Re: How much is a billion?

Post by Diggertron »

Billion= Giga-

/thread.
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Re: How much is a billion?

Post by Minnakht »

European. Long scale.

I mostly communicate by text on the Internet, so I might as well use scientific notation.
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Re: How much is a billion?

Post by pholtos »

A billion is like... something over 1. Yeah.
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Re: How much is a billion?

Post by july »

pholtos wrote:A billion is like... something over 1. Yeah.
Numbers go 1, 2, a bunch, a bunch more, a billion.
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Re: How much is a billion?

Post by devil†zukin »

十億
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Re: How much is a billion?

Post by Alice »

I can understand the idea of the long scale but that would just confuse the hell out of most people. Especially when it came to numbers more than a million. And people have enough trouble trying to visualize such massive numbers as it is.

As for how much it is, 1000x1000x1000 is the most sensical way in my opinion.
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Re: How much is a billion?

Post by raocow »

I thought it was just a language thing!

Like in my mind, it was just 'normal' for a billion to be 1.000.000.000 in english and 1.000.000.000.000 in french
(there is a 'milliard' between 'million' and 'billion')
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Re: How much is a billion?

Post by Falky »

I've just thought, a thousand being ten hundreds doesn't really make much sense either. Should be a hundred hundreds. Maths was never my forte anyway.
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Re: How much is a billion?

Post by Lunikyuu »

ano0maly wrote:Ideally, to complete the long system you would need a separate name for 100000 and 10000 just like there's a "thousand" instead of calling it "ten hundred".
Forgot to mention this earlier, but didn't Myriad used to be the term used for 10,000 before it was changed to mean a lot of things in general? No idea what 100,000 would be.
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Re: How much is a billion?

Post by Snakebite969 »

Rénà wrote:十億
So much simpler than having to write 9 or 12 zeros.
Wait. That second letter...
I'll stick to standard form... (I'll learn Japanese in summer. I have nothing else to do then)
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Re: How much is a billion?

Post by onpon4 »

Rénà wrote:十億
僕も

Luckily, we don't talk about these large numbers very often.
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Re: How much is a billion?

Post by docopoper »

Oh god, I remember always thinking billion meant twelve zeros as I was growing up because my parents used it like that and then being very confused for ages because people kept telling me it meant different things.

Now I take it to mean nine zeros but I honestly just mostly avoid the word when I can.
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Re: How much is a billion?

Post by devil†zukin »

Snakebite969 wrote:
Rénà wrote:十億
So much simpler than having to write 9 or 12 zeros.
Wait. That second letter...
I'll stick to standard form... (I'll learn Japanese in summer. I have nothing else to do then)
it means (ten) (hundred millions)

(numbers above 10k are written in 10,000s and 100,000,000s)
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