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romhack shack 改 (discord on OP, but don't abandon the thread!!!)

do you like them video games? what about those there romhacks? well pop on in here and talk about them then! what are you waiting for?!
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Re: romhack shack 改 (discord on OP, but don't abandon the thread!!!)

Post by KobaBeach »

oh god oh god im turning into carol im tgfnjgnjfgnh into le carole, everyone's favorite carol, carroll

v nanned from smwc (he's not anymore and i know it was a safety precaution for impersonators)
v likes making bosses
v jrpg nerd
v reclusive (in my case irl)
x wife (i have like five people i internet sext with tho)

And now I'm making a fucking ASM hack??? Currently I'm working on a few songs, mostly unsampled:
zwei serpentina (i did a sampled port of this but it sounds jank)
silhouette mirage stage 2
arc the lad critical moment / arc the lad 2 submap (finished for the most part, used smrpg samples for crash cymbal and tambourine, need to optimize)
bravely default asterisk battle (kudos to vash and francium)
saga frontier battle 1
prophecy of the moonlight witch mountain path
popolocrois monogatari popolocrois castle
lunar 2 town bgm 1

I don't know how to port good though, I'm using vgmtrans, petitemm and midis. ADSR????? I hardly know 'er! Zwei midi is from a jp site, SM is from vgmusic, BD is from vgmusic cross referencing with a sheet music midi from Sheethost (the vgmusic person did some shitty rearrangements), Moonlight Witch is from the Windows port, the rest is VGMTrans' last build (not interim, in Actions).

So far plans are to make a sort of Hammer Bro multi sprites in 1 sprite, controlled by Extra Bytes for a hammer bro themed stage that I'm gonna try to make it not very hard by making semi-custom Hammer Bros that don't act 100% like the Sonikku/SMB3 ones and have an alternate version that doesn't act 100% like SMW ones.

I've also thought about messing a bit with Mode 2, maybe patching in some mirrors for hardware for possible buffering. I'd consider experimenting with Mode 0 but I really have no use for it other than dollying up a stage in 8bit. Mode 7 will be used for some basic stolen code from other games (CV4,,) and effects (julius rotato,,). HDMA will also have stolen code from other games. Need to look up good trigonometry techniques and learn the basics myself.

As for enemies and bosses and stuff I'm gonna just take graphics from other games and use them in my own contexts, music will be shit but oh well. Code will be the only thing up to any sort of modern standards at my skill level. Name is undecided, part of me would like my Koba (Leomon) and Kura (lion) OCs as playable characters, I could code separate physics for Kura. If that were the case, maybe Super Lion World? As is... I dunno.

All I have to say about this is. TiKi please don't bother me about bosses or a release date, I know you want to though.



FAKE EDIT: DIGIMON WORLD LEOMON THEME FOR A DESERT/WILDERNESS MAP BECAUSE FUCK YOUUUUUUUUU I'VE WANTED THIS FOR YEARS

VGMTRANS MY BELOVED


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EDIT: oh yeah i also thought about having two freeram addresses dedicated to managing collectibles. something similar to carol's dk coin and dragon ball, i'm thinking the dk coin which unlocks the final boss' second phase is gonna be a crystal shard like kirby 64 but represented by culex's blue crystal, dragon balls unlock the special world (not star road).
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Re: romhack shack 改 (discord on OP, but don't abandon the thread!!!)

Post by TiKi »

haha no all i'm gonna bother you about is
up to modern standards
stop talking like that it's unhealthy

oh and also yeah vgmusic can be funny like that. if i had a nickel for every time i'd have two nickels etc
https://www.vgmusic.com/file/7ea5412970 ... 279f7.html
they just drop the motherfuckin zelda theme in at 0:56 and it is completely not labelled as a remix/mashup on the main Game Boy page and it even got into an old-school fangame (megaman paradise) lmfao
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Re: romhack shack 改 (discord on OP, but don't abandon the thread!!!)

Post by KobaBeach »

TiKi wrote: 2 years ago haha no all i'm gonna bother you about is
up to modern standards
stop talking like that it's unhealthy
thank you, i feared worse (´・ω・`)

also by modern standards i mean like modern standards of smw hacking where the code isn't hacky as shit and jank, without counting like the normal hacky-ness of patches and hijacks. i'm probably not gonna make it as accurate as a real game's code but it'll probably feel okay to interact with

with this and my gained understanding of boss basics, i feel like i have an idea of how to make enemies that are fun to fight against. working on a block for my stage in a3mt, might mess with the hammer bro multi-sprite in my hack later.

i know im ballooning my workload by trying to code, port and rip most things myself but it's really fun to make them. valentine asked me if i want to finish it or just work on it forever until the end of time and honestly? i'm ambivalent. there is the worry that i'll burn out due to the collab and honestly the big thing that would burn me out is like. drama. there was a bit of an anxiety spike on my end over a small thing that happened and it turned out to not be that big a thing. i thought someone was mad at me but No.

love being unable to function normally due to mental illness.

anyway i don't really care as much about releasing, it'll happen eventually but i just want to have fun making something. even if it goes down i'll release the final build before its death and all the resources that belong to me.

oh i should also back this shit up on a private github in case my hard drive dies....... i'd put it on my site like old jp hackers used to, but i can't work with or rely exclusively on a compiled binary and it's too annoying to have to reupload everything to rena's servers every time instead of putting it on github or bitbucket like a normal person.

i'd rather save that for a demo. possibly a fish market demo every few levels finished. i don't really want to remake stages outside of slight alterations here and there, too much effort for little gain.

------------------

also i really like porting with petitemm and vgmtrans and now i also added
geese ni katakori (vgmusic)
the flame from sf3-2 (vgmusic)
zangief from sfa2 (jp site)
popoi's theme from puyo fever (vgmusic)
player select from red earth (jp site, wanted leo's theme but ;;)
tumultuous meeting from summon night 2*
so deep perfect sphere mix from ddr max and some trance anthology compilation disc that the song originally came from? i have no idea (vgmusic)

to the list of shit i want to port, will mess with this tomorrow or smth

* - not swordcraft, i dunno if this is uploaded on youtube, i mean to get to it with sn music uploads but lazy, you can find it in khinsider tho
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Re: romhack shack 改 (discord on OP, but don't abandon the thread!!!)

Post by KobaBeach »

disassembling some of lunar magic's hijacks. i might have missed a few in the rom im using as my guinea pig but yeehaw

commenting this is gonna be annoying, especially since i heard fusoya's code is spooky spaghetti

i have no idea how to start making an editor and apparently fusoya's c++ code is utter poopoo peepee so i dont know if attempting to decompile its borland ass with like ghidra or something is gonna be good enough to help guide me (edit: fuck it im gonna do it anyway)
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Re: romhack shack 改 (discord on OP, but don't abandon the thread!!!)

Post by TiKi »

KobaBeach wrote: 2 years agopopoi's theme from puyo fever (vgmusic)
my discord pfp is literally
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Re: romhack shack 改 (discord on OP, but don't abandon the thread!!!)

Post by KobaBeach »

no more sex only

im learning coding to try and translate the innards of super mario world into an editor.

gonna cycle through c (starting with this one, it's pretty close to asm), c++, java and rust for now as i try to learn their basics, then mess around with random console apps while trying to acclimatize to working with em, maybe pick up a few more novelty languages to mess with.

c#'s a mess but it's pretty close to java.
javascript and html (maybe html5 instead if rena's site software supports it) might help me jazz up my site.
lua for srb2 and smbx2, roach will have to be my spriting mule while i practice spriting
haskell and scala because they sound hilarious...

i'd like to mess with sega saturn asm and see what it's like to develop for it, too. every normal person uses c though. i'll still mess with its homebrew engines though regardless.

maybe megadrive asm too, but sonic hacking is such a pain and standards are so high that most people would rather just make asm showcases. i guess i can acclimatize to ssrg or whatever's standards by studying the general atmosphere of the place, maybe ask vada for advice.
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Re: romhack shack 改 (discord on OP, but don't abandon the thread!!!)

Post by TiKi »

KobaBeach wrote: 2 years agomaybe megadrive asm too, but sonic hacking is such a pain and standards are so high that most people would rather just make asm showcases. i guess i can acclimatize to ssrg or whatever's standards by studying the general atmosphere of the place, maybe ask vada for advice.
i think there's something to be said for changing the hacking scene in a new way. there's a few places I can think of it going...

1. more "modular" hacking as opposed to disassembly-based hacking. there's something extremely convenient about being able to import tilesets, music or sprites and have them Just Work. there's never been a sonic collab hack iirc except for like, extremely intimate teams. while admittedly this lends itself better to mario-style tilesets/levels/world maps, i don't think it would be impossible to eventually have A Sonic the Hedgehog Thing.

2. how well-commented are the disassemblies? if you don't mind, find me what you think is a "well-commented" disassembly of the playable character animation/pose assembling in any sonic game and i'll see how idiot-proof it is. i know there's only so much "for dummies" that you can do to explain the routines (or in other words "if you can't tell what this routine is doing by studying and googling the opcodes then you really should find a hobby better-suited for you") when working with hardware this weak, but if people (not you, i mean the ones you mentioned) are gonna be pretentious about hacks needing to look impressive then they need to put their money where their mouth is to make it more open for the level/graphic/music-type people, know what i mean?

like, for better or worse it seems like the state of most games when it comes to romhacking is that you NEED a programmer, and any graphic/music talent is useless unless it can be paired with that. it's basically optional, in a sense. like if you have puresabe on one hand or someone who could sprite/compose but doesn't want to dig into the game's guts (i.e. they need at least a GUI editor and preferably a disassembly) on the other hand, then puresabe is the only person who can actually make something. hell i don't think carol's any better at pixel art than puresabe - he just chose a game to hack that allows for easier importing of stuff (not just in getting it into the ROM terms but like, "does this tileset/boss look okay juxtaposed with vanilla smw mario" that you don't get with mega man 7's big clunky showoffy sizes) compared to rockman 7. maybe i'm just not suited for romhacking?
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Re: romhack shack 改 (discord on OP, but don't abandon the thread!!!)

Post by KobaBeach »

TiKi wrote: 2 years ago maybe i'm just not suited for romhacking?
honestly smw wise, just make levels and care about the rest later. if you want to learn how to asm or sprite or compose for that brutal mario chic, go ahead but don't expect people to do things for you unless you request them in the proper channels.

if you want an advice wrt learning snes asm, maybe try learning c first to get a base for asm-esque programming knowledge in a somewhat higher level (but not as high level as say c# or rust) environment which has more support.

one advice i'd say is that visual studio's compiler and gcc seem to have slightly different environments though, I had to make a buffer for a scanf_s() call that didn't have that in the Head First C scans i downloaded. might have changed since c11, i'm using visual studio 2019. will update to 2022 when im ready for it.

i'm starting my programming learning with c and as someone who has been programming in 65c816 for the past half decade it feels almost natural to me. i'm a firm believer in that anyone can learn programming if they tackle it with the right mindset.

another thing I'd advise for more enjoyable asm learning is to use and abuse defines. they add a layer of "unabstraction" to the cold numbers and addresses of assembly, allowing for an almost c like vibe. I'm making a personal define file to incsrc in every sprite i make and it's extremely handy for rapid development and more helpful commenting.

music porting also isn't hard as long as you don't go in expecting to go full on slash man or sincx on your first shot. focus on learning with midis and doing your best.

you seem to be experienced in graphics and i don't really have any advice wrt spriting that isn't like. This Entire Tutorial that i still need to follow, was ripping Ebi's sprites from VIP Mario and was thinking of going through some SNES RPGs and Fighting games for reference for character graphics and some Platformers for FG and BG reference.

-----------------------------------------------

romhacking in general is a very disassembly and decompilation heavy work and thus a lot of programming knowledge is necessary in the more technical games. editors and tools help in making things more approachable for non programmers but that in of itself requires good programming skills and good knowledge of the game's innards and where to poke and prod to properly study the game. it's all a part of the game.

you are free to make level only hacks for mario world and the like. an advice i'd give is to like. not constantly stress about the things you can't do and just relish in the things you can do and just. do thing have fun.

you say you're not a romhacker but you could always just make a simple stage hack with no real goal other than like. make a level that's fun for you or your bf, maybe make some fun graphics, no real standards put in place. i'm only making my hack for myself because i like the cut of old jp asm hacks' jib and i'd like to try that as well as practice level design.

i've thought about studying some hackers and some levels' (like SMW Gaiden, the VIP So X It's Y stages... stages that aren't separately credited) level design methods to get ideas for my own design when i was playing Luigi's Adventure OSE some minutes ago, maybe see how they tackle AxemJinx's points in their level design tutorial.

i don't feel like copying them to its base essentials, just take some advice for making levels similar to the stages i like.

-----------------------------------------------

i'd honestly like to do stuff like translation patches and megaman hacks and whatnot but i've accepted that that is too far out of my league so i just stick to what's more approachable. be like that tbh and do your best. complain less. that's how i do it.

i didn't come out of the pussy drawing asm either, i tried to start in the days where people still mocked mikeyk's tutorials for being terrible at their job (and they were, but wow literally no one tried to do a basic spriting tutorial until a few years back smh). i was dumb enough to enroll in a computer science class to learn programming over it, and i don't regret it (i wasn't bad but it was too stressful so i dropped out).

if you're gonna learn asm, i feel like these days is the chance, with great tools like pixi and uberasmtool at your disposal, the better xkas/asar syntax, the better documentation of smw (still not perfect though, a lot is still unknown), the better tutorials (which, my block one is somehow still up despite me finding it obnoxious, i wrote that one in a few days to just fill the blank because thomas not writing his was annoying me).

i will add that ersanio's tuts are like a huge slog to read and i'd advise following the asm workshops and separate tutorials along with them, possibly? i'm not sure if they're too far ahead. i personally believe that examples and exercises to practice and acclimatize to the workings of the language is good to learning programming rather than just RTFM and expecting to work on that alone.

levelasm is also good if you want to practice a bit of asm code that is meant to run every frame, like testing what each powerup value does. try making sprites, copypaste and edit code from other sprites to get to your goal sprite, basically frankensteining.

despite all this, you are free to make relatively vanilla stages, no one is stopping you but yourself. do what your heart tells you bro
TiKi wrote: 2 years ago 1. more "modular" hacking as opposed to disassembly-based hacking. there's something extremely convenient about being able to import tilesets, music or sprites and have them Just Work. there's never been a sonic collab hack iirc except for like, extremely intimate teams. while admittedly this lends itself better to mario-style tilesets/levels/world maps, i don't think it would be impossible to eventually have A Sonic the Hedgehog Thing.
working with binary is a problem in more technical games. relying on patches rather than editing the source directly allows for messier code and much more skill barriers. will also add that A Sonic Thing would be better fit for something like sonic robo blast 2, possibly some open source megadrive sonic platformer fan engine could be handled by codehaus too?

sonic's engines are notoriously messy to edit, which contributes to the amount of ""tech demo"" hacks. i'd be down to organize an srb2 collab level pack, but first i'd like to have some experience writing lua and making my own maps first. will make a few hangout maps first though for that true 1.09.4 experience :rao: :rao: :rao: :rao:

maybe i could learn zelda classic and revive azct too, make a smaller scale smbx collab, heavy hitters will remain with the a_xt team, though they can make a lower scale breather episode from time to time if they need to. stuff with basic level editors for the non technical users.
TiKi wrote: 2 years ago 2. how well-commented are the disassemblies? if you don't mind, find me what you think is a "well-commented" disassembly of the playable character animation/pose assembling in any sonic game and i'll see how idiot-proof it is. i know there's only so much "for dummies" that you can do to explain the routines (or in other words "if you can't tell what this routine is doing by studying and googling the opcodes then you really should find a hobby better-suited for you") when working with hardware this weak, but if people (not you, i mean the ones you mentioned) are gonna be pretentious about hacks needing to look impressive then they need to put their money where their mouth is to make it more open for the level/graphic/music-type people, know what i mean?
honestly i'm not 100% familiar with the status of the sonic hacking scene, they just ask for more extensive asm than the tutorial stuff, doesn't usually have to be something too big i think, as long as it's a fun time waster iirc. it's programming based rather than level design based like mario world.

generations is more level based though, but it requires modeling knowledge, or the ability to port levels from other boost games. i have no idea how steam!mania modding is like, but it might require some coding knowledge? there might be an editor hidden in the game's code? i have no idea, i'm curious but i feel like it's too out of my league.
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Re: romhack shack 改 (discord on OP, but don't abandon the thread!!!)

Post by KobaBeach »

My Internet's shit lately.

Also man, I'm seriously gonna start an editor. Kind of overwhelming. Underway told me to make sure to plan ahead as much as possible to avoid spaghetti code and basically a mess under the hood, and to take it one step at a time to avoid burn out. This is gonna be slow and methodical, but that's ok. So far provisional name is Runar (after the FFXIV catboy).

I'm gonna try to have a few fav related easter eggs too but related to cat men I like too, no dumb shortcuts like the bitmap converter.

Short term goals are:
1. load palette pointers (account for custom palettes)
2. load palette values
3. print palette (snes values printed to text sequencially)
3. load tile binaries
4. print tile binaries (kind of translate to ascii using numbers instead of colors)
5. 16x16 tile window
6. parse tiles with palette
7. 4bpp conversion routine
8. test 4bpp conversion routine
9. load map16 data (account for custom map16 and rejiggering to pages 80+)
10. print map16 data
11. base map16 editor window
12. parse map16 data
13. load objects
14. parse objects (will likely need 65816 emulator)
15. display a level, no enemies
Targeted development environment is split disassembly, similar to IsoFrieze's disassembly, but I'm gonna aim to make it as accessible as Lunar Magic as possible, I'll also be decompiling Lunar Magic hijacks and reverse engineering them to be cleaner. I'm not on SMWCentral anymore so I have free reign. If FuSoYa comes here, he can't stop me. So far I'm gonna use Java and NetBeans as my main development environment for coding as it's multi-platform and has the ability to build GUI. I do worry about bloat and performance.

As for programming, it's mostly a matter of decoding bytes and bits. For instance, a single map16 tile (8x8?) could be ten bytes, eight (2x4) bytes for tile data (yxpccctt tttttttt) and the two Acts Like bytes. Still need to figure out custom block data though. Tile drawing also works on bitplanes as can be seen in this article of mine. I'm thinking of converting the palette into a multidimensional array and using the bitplane value as an index for the row, depending on the palette (ccc) bits of the tile data. The 16x16 window would color it depending on the palette currently active, cycling between them with buttons.

Disk Poppy should help me programming wise and Underway should help me planning wise.

A3MT will still be under Lunar Magic 3.11, as this will likely not be 100% usable and stable for a few years. I'm still making stages for A3MT.
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Re: romhack shack 改 (discord on OP, but don't abandon the thread!!!)

Post by Catabo »

One of the Fire Emblem projects I'm helping with recently released a new public demo! If you like wacky new gameplay elements, demihumans, Seiken Densetsu and Shining Force music, and none of that "skill system" nonsense, I recommend it!

seriously you guys the music's actually good it's not your average sounds-like-farts GBA music 8-)

On hacking methods: generally, beginners will start with editing apps and then transition to a build file format that assembles the entire project to a clean rom once they start running into problems with the editors. No more keeping 65536 backups or sinking feeling if your rom crashes; just take out whatever you added to the build file to make it do that and rebuild.
KobaBeach wrote: 2 years agomaybe i could learn zelda classic and revive azct too, make a smaller scale smbx collab, heavy hitters will remain with the a_xt team, though they can make a lower scale breather episode from time to time if they need to. stuff with basic level editors for the non technical users.
That being said: this is where the editors shine. Working in SMW is so much fun because I accept that I'm out of familiar territory and I decide not to worry about everything being perfect and let the editor take care of that for me. I'm not even a big fan of Zelda 1 gameplay but I'd still be down for messing with ZC for that reason. And I think the Mega Man fan game engine stuff is robust enough for A Mega Man Thing to be easily doable, altho I don't remember if it requires the paid version of Game Maker Studio, which would be a non-starter since GMS switched to a subscription model.

SMBX has so many untapped possibilities outside of the default Mario gameplay too. I'd be down for another short Pily game or one about one of the other siblings that plays like Klonoa (with actual Klonoa physics, think Dog in da Grass's level) instead of Mario.
KobaBeach wrote: 2 years agomegaman hacks and whatnot but i've accepted that that is too far out of my league
It is actually pretty fun to play around with Mega Man even with no ASM. Of course there are the level editors for both the J and U versions, but then you've also got stuff like patches that let you charge/slide in Mega Man 2, add the air sliding from RM5 Air Sliding, the faster movement from Burst Chaser, etc. Things like boss AI and weaknesses are also documented and changing them is a matter of changing a byte or two. It's not high art or anything, but you can do stuff like make Stone Man more threatening by changing the speed/frequency of his stones.
TiKi wrote: 2 years agomaybe i'm just not suited for romhacking?
If opening up the game in an editor and messing around brings you joy, you are suited for rom hacking. That's all you need. Anything else is a bonus.
Hi YouTube peeps! Want a cozier, chiller community that actually feels like a discussion instead of shouting into an endless void?
Consider posting on the talkhaus too! :catplanet:
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Re: romhack shack 改 (discord on OP, but don't abandon the thread!!!)

Post by KobaBeach »

Catabo wrote: 2 years ago One of the Fire Emblem projects I'm helping with recently released a new public demo! If you like wacky new gameplay elements, demihumans, Seiken Densetsu and Shining Force music, and none of that "skill system" nonsense, I recommend it!

seriously you guys the music's actually good it's not your average sounds-like-farts GBA music 8-)
yooooooooooooo i'll probably wait a bit until i'm used to the fire emblems' gameplay first tho :T

Wanna beat 1-4 on NES and SNES soon, Thracia might be after the GBA ones, graphics are so pretty (i'm a graphics whore wrt JRPGs) that I want to play it sooner rather than later though... Also the Gamecube ones for my daddies Mordecai and Caineghis.. DS for the remakes, 3DS sound like they're gonna be really annoying character wise though, 3H has some adorable folk in it though (avoid the fans)

Also can't forget about Tear Ring Saga, thankfully it has a translation patch ^^ No juggling jisho.org and DeepL like i do with Summon Night.
There's also Elvandia Story, noted jank as fuck SRPG with stolen stat distribution from Fire Emblem games, but that'll be when I feel like tackling a bad game.
Catabo wrote: 2 years ago On hacking methods: generally, beginners will start with editing apps and then transition to a build file format that assembles the entire project to a clean rom once they start running into problems with the editors. No more keeping 65536 backups or sinking feeling if your rom crashes; just take out whatever you added to the build file to make it do that and rebuild.
Yeah, SMW didn't have that for ages until Underway and Maddy's work so people legit just added stuff or rebuilt everything from scratch and relied on backups and ugh it was gross. Like VIP5's last version, for the longest time, crashed in a World 6 stage because of it applying like AddmusicM (by Romi I believe) hacks on top of Addmusic for Mix (by carol) stuff I think. This Eye o' Mine and ASMagician Maks fixed it thankfully, but they still had to do low level hacking with hex editing iirc.

Heraga said that old collab baseroms are good enough as is, but I feel like the convenience of Lunar Helper is worth using it, even if the level makers don't. Patches also feel much worse to test if you have to reinsert all of them manually every time you have to build a new rom. My personal hack is using Lunar Helper because I'm thinking of making a few patch wise edits.
Catabo wrote: 2 years ago
KobaBeach wrote: 2 years agomaybe i could learn zelda classic and revive azct too, make a smaller scale smbx collab, heavy hitters will remain with the a_xt team, though they can make a lower scale breather episode from time to time if they need to. stuff with basic level editors for the non technical users.
That being said: this is where the editors shine. Working in SMW is so much fun because I accept that I'm out of familiar territory and I decide not to worry about everything being perfect and let the editor take care of that for me. I'm not even a big fan of Zelda 1 gameplay but I'd still be down for messing with ZC for that reason. And I think the Mega Man fan game engine stuff is robust enough for A Mega Man Thing to be easily doable, altho I don't remember if it requires the paid version of Game Maker Studio, which would be a non-starter since GMS switched to a subscription model.

SMBX has so many untapped possibilities outside of the default Mario gameplay too. I'd be down for another short Pily game or one about one of the other siblings that plays like Klonoa (with actual Klonoa physics, think Dog in da Grass's level) instead of Mario.
Oh I love 2D Zelda gameplay, it's souped up Druaga or Hydlide (and by extension Ys) and it's so goooooood. As for GMS I'd honestly just pirate it, but I understand that's a hard thing for most people who are illiterate wrt piracy, not to mention having the street smarts to avoid viruses.

I feel like the big thing about ZC would be learning the scripting language, it was a big problem for beginner authors in AZCT, even stuff like Zelda 1 stairs (like in the side view environments) had to be made through that. AZCT's big killing blow was a lack of interest and key dungeon designers being banned for being shitlords (Aposke, Doctor Shemp, I think Willhart was making a dungeon, though this was before his coming out as a sheer monster though), though.

SMBX does have untapped potential, yes, but I feel like I'm not the right person to manage a Gaiden-esque collab. Codehaus folk can deal with that. If it's something like a lighter ASMBXT or Talking Time Bros. type thing with Lua, or a sort of SDS2, I'd consider it. I'll have to study Lua first though.
Catabo wrote: 2 years ago
KobaBeach wrote: 2 years agomegaman hacks and whatnot but i've accepted that that is too far out of my league
It is actually pretty fun to play around with Mega Man even with no ASM. Of course there are the level editors for both the J and U versions, but then you've also got stuff like patches that let you charge/slide in Mega Man 2, add the air sliding from RM5 Air Sliding, the faster movement from Burst Chaser, etc. Things like boss AI and weaknesses are also documented and changing them is a matter of changing a byte or two. It's not high art or anything, but you can do stuff like make Stone Man more threatening by changing the speed/frequency of his stones.
I guess I could look at those patches for a guide on how the code works. I'd like to see how to add music too, Narf apparently added them through hex editing as I said before, but is there an easy way I can compose a song with NES' "samples" (not the right word likely) and obtain the hex code? The music is one of the key parts of a Mega Man hack for me.

Can't get overloaded rn though, so maybe for the future. I'm definitely not doing something like Puresabe's MM4 work though, at least not right now. But I'd like to make a few tools for it once I learn how some of the Mega Mans translate bytes into assets. At least debuggers are available, FCEUX should be good despite its old age, maybe there's a Bizhawk core with debugger functionality.
Catabo wrote: 2 years ago
TiKi wrote: 2 years agomaybe i'm just not suited for romhacking?
If opening up the game in an editor and messing around brings you joy, you are suited for rom hacking. That's all you need. Anything else is a bonus.
Yeah babey. I literally only brought up ASM and such because he seems to be really into the Brutal Mario aesthetic, though he's also like very avoidant of hacking itself, preferring to play rather than make. I personally feel like making is part of the fun.

Trying not to step on people's toes but some folk on SMWC are very into "respecting the meta of level and game design", but personally I feel like doing what makes you happy is the key factor in making a hack. I cannot make a hack following other people's standards. I've tried to make a level similar to the VIPPERs' on A3MT and it was not fun.

I was talking to Underway about this earlier and they were all like "I think more people gotta realize that they can make whatever hack they wanna make and that nobody else has to like it for you to have fun making it". And they're right. And they should say it. Part of me feels like the overhating of Brutal Mario over its lackluster level design damaged the mindset of a lot of hackers a bit, by adding a "meta" to SMW hacking (trying to chase "good Level Design" as much as possible) rather than just making The Funny Mario.

If anyone ever wants to make a SMW hack, I feel like they should just make whatever, whether it be a Kaizo hack that deals with ASM mechanics, a more traditional "routine Kaizo" hack, a rompy standard hack, a VIP difficulty standard hack, something out of the box like Underway's hacks, an ASM showcase... There isn't a black or white to making SMW hacks, there's like a spectrum. If it's able to be portrayed in a Mario engine context, it works.
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Re: romhack shack 改 (discord on OP, but don't abandon the thread!!!)

Post by Rixithechao »

Regarding the Mega Man stuff, for what it’s worth GameMaker Studio 2 is free to use without signing up for a subscription, you just can’t publish games without it. My brother’s been using it to make his own old-school JRPG (a Dragon Quest clone mostly inspired by DWIII NES) and that prompted me to check studio 2 out myself; as far as I could tell nothing is limited beyond the exe export.

I don’t know if there’s any Mega Man fangame devkits that have been updated to Studio 2 — would be worth asking Pyro or JupiHornet or someone else in the MM fangame sphere about that — but if there are then folks should be able to develop a collab game without any problems and the organizer would just need to pay for/pirate the engine when it comes time to release the finished game.

Also, if folks want to derive an A2XT Gaiden 3 from Gaiden 2, go for it! I wouldn’t be involved in it beyond helping folks find their way around Gaiden 2’s episode-specific code and systems, but it’d still be rad to see that happen. It wouldn’t need to be anywhere near the size and scope of the first two games or stick to being an advent-specific subseries, and it shouldn’t take much work to convert the calendar date-based level unlocking to a standard linear unlock order.

…With all that said, there are some bugfixes on the repo that aren’t in the most recent release/patch. I held off on releasing a new update and patch because I wanted to fix this one rare mystery error in the title sequence, but I never did figure that bug out and it’s been weeks since I touched it so I should probably just put out what we have. I’ll try and get that taken care of this week.
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Re: romhack shack 改 (discord on OP, but don't abandon the thread!!!)

Post by KobaBeach »

Rixithechao wrote: 2 years ago Regarding the Mega Man stuff, for what it’s worth GameMaker Studio 2 is free to use without signing up for a subscription, you just can’t publish games without it. My brother’s been using it to make his own old-school JRPG (a Dragon Quest clone mostly inspired by DWIII NES) and that prompted me to check studio 2 out myself; as far as I could tell nothing is limited beyond the exe export.

I don’t know if there’s any Mega Man fangame devkits that have been updated to Studio 2 — would be worth asking Pyro or JupiHornet or someone else in the MM fangame sphere about that — but if there are then folks should be able to develop a collab game without any problems and the organizer would just need to pay for/pirate the engine when it comes time to release the finished game.
👁️ This would probably be handy for an AStHT too. I'd suggest 1 or 2 acts per zone if that were to ever happen, 3 is too much and I don't want people to stress themselves out stretching a concept over three stages. No real unified standard for zone amount, make it similar to an SRB2 level pack.
Rixithechao wrote: 2 years ago Also, if folks want to derive an A2XT Gaiden 3 from Gaiden 2, go for it! I wouldn’t be involved in it beyond helping folks find their way around Gaiden 2’s episode-specific code and systems, but it’d still be rad to see that happen. It wouldn’t need to be anywhere near the size and scope of the first two games or stick to being an advent-specific subseries, and it shouldn’t take much work to convert the calendar date-based level unlocking to a standard linear unlock order.

…With all that said, there are some bugfixes on the repo that aren’t in the most recent release/patch. I held off on releasing a new update and patch because I wanted to fix this one rare mystery error in the title sequence, but I never did figure that bug out and it’s been weeks since I touched it so I should probably just put out what we have. I’ll try and get that taken care of this week.
Thanks. I'm just excusing myself due to A3MT, as well as my lack of experience with Lua rn. Also I'd worry I'd have more trouble managing the collabs at the same level as you. There is also the fact I'm starting work on Runar and "Brutal Koba" but I'm treating those as sort of passive development where I just work on them on and off.
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Re: romhack shack 改 (discord on OP, but don't abandon the thread!!!)

Post by Catabo »

Rixithechao wrote: 2 years ago Regarding the Mega Man stuff, for what it’s worth GameMaker Studio 2 is free to use without signing up for a subscription, you just can’t publish games without it. My brother’s been using it to make his own old-school JRPG (a Dragon Quest clone mostly inspired by DWIII NES) and that prompted me to check studio 2 out myself; as far as I could tell nothing is limited beyond the exe export.

I don’t know if there’s any Mega Man fangame devkits that have been updated to Studio 2 — would be worth asking Pyro or JupiHornet or someone else in the MM fangame sphere about that — but if there are then folks should be able to develop a collab game without any problems and the organizer would just need to pay for/pirate the engine when it comes time to release the finished game.
Oh, nice! In that case, I could just handle the exporting when it came to that. I also have a license for GMS1, but I would port it to GMS2 anyway because other people wouldn't be able to work on it in that case.

I'm not rushing to do this because I have no idea how I would organise a GMS2 collab. But it's good to know that it can be done.
KobaBeach wrote: 2 years agoWanna beat 1-4 on NES and SNES soon, Thracia might be after the GBA ones, graphics are so pretty (i'm a graphics whore wrt JRPGs) that I want to play it sooner rather than later though... Also the Gamecube ones for my daddies Mordecai and Caineghis.. DS for the remakes, 3DS sound like they're gonna be really annoying character wise though, 3H has some adorable folk in it though (avoid the fans)
Good luck! Emulator tools are essential to make the first five games playable imo, but also I just do not have the patience for them anymore. The 3DS games are notorious for revitalizing the series yet at the same time bringing a bunch of annoying types into the fanbase, so no surprise there. By Echoes they'd mostly shaken off the anime-trope-y characters, but boy howdy, Fates is its own special brand of train wreck. I just hope other games get the Echoes remake treatment eventually (still amazed they haven't remade The One With Roy yet; that's basically a free crowd-pleaser).
AZCT's big killing blow was a lack of interest and key dungeon designers being banned for being shitlords
Oh, so that's what held it up. That's unfortunate.
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Re: romhack shack 改 (discord on OP, but don't abandon the thread!!!)

Post by Rixithechao »

KobaBeach wrote: 2 years ago Thanks. I'm just excusing myself due to A3MT, as well as my lack of experience with Lua rn. Also I'd worry I'd have more trouble managing the collabs at the same level as you. There is also the fact I'm starting work on Runar and "Brutal Koba" but I'm treating those as sort of passive development where I just work on them on and off.
Honestly, I’m not a great organizer on my own. I do tend to take initiative on spreadsheets & write-ups and tackling some — and I do want to stress some — of the heavy lifting with devkits and other technical stuff, but I wouldn’t be able to spearhead a collab without folks like Enjl, Hoeloe, KBM-Quine, SAJewers and Susie; the GUrP game, Gaidens 1 & 2, A2XT2 and Delightful Enhanced all happened/are happening because of working with them and their efforts when I’m not active or available.

And yeah, definitely don’t spread yourself too thin if you can help it. I’m abstaining from advent collab stuff this year (with a possible tiny

stuffed animal

-related exception if that ends up being a thing) specifically so I can clear my plate. To be clear, the stuff about Gaiden 3 was more of an open invitation to anyone reading this thread who’d be open to running it, not you or Catabo specifically. And just in general, no pressure or expectations meant with anything I’ve been chiming in about.
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Re: romhack shack 改 (discord on OP, but don't abandon the thread!!!)

Post by KobaBeach »

Catabo wrote: 2 years ago Good luck! Emulator tools are essential to make the first five games playable imo, but also I just do not have the patience for them anymore. The 3DS games are notorious for revitalizing the series yet at the same time bringing a bunch of annoying types into the fanbase, so no surprise there. By Echoes they'd mostly shaken off the anime-trope-y characters, but boy howdy, Fates is its own special brand of train wreck. I just hope other games get the Echoes remake treatment eventually (still amazed they haven't remade The One With Roy yet; that's basically a free crowd-pleaser).
I'm at like Stage 4 of like 25? in Shadow Dragon NES. It's not bad, but it's rough, being an NES SRPG. Like YK has said before, my tolerance for annoying games is almost maxed out. Castlevania 1 still stresses me out a bit tho ;w;
Rixithechao wrote: 2 years ago Honestly, I’m not a great organizer on my own. I do tend to take initiative on spreadsheets & write-ups and tackling some — and I do want to stress some — of the heavy lifting with devkits and other technical stuff, but I wouldn’t be able to spearhead a collab without folks like Enjl, Hoeloe, KBM-Quine, SAJewers and Susie; the GUrP game, Gaidens 1 & 2, A2XT2 and Delightful Enhanced all happened/are happening because of working with them and their efforts when I’m not active or available.
I'm not that great an organizer either, people say I'm a good leader wrt A3MT, but I don't really feel it. Nao and Disk Poppy have been handling most of the baserom stuff rn, so I feel they did most of the heavy lifting.
Rixithechao wrote: 2 years ago And yeah, definitely don’t spread yourself too thin if you can help it. I’m abstaining from advent collab stuff this year (with a possible tiny

stuffed animal

-related exception if that ends up being a thing) specifically so I can clear my plate. To be clear, the stuff about Gaiden 3 was more of an open invitation to anyone reading this thread who’d be open to running it, not you or Catabo specifically. And just in general, no pressure or expectations meant with anything I’ve been chiming in about.
I know, I know. I'm just saying where I stand on this rn lol
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Re: romhack shack 改 (discord on OP, but don't abandon the thread!!!)

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KobaBeach wrote: 2 years agohonestly smw wise, just make levels and care about the rest later. if you want to learn how to asm or sprite or compose for that brutal mario chic, go ahead but don't expect people to do things for you unless you request them in the proper channels.

working with binary is a problem in more technical games. relying on patches rather than editing the source directly allows for messier code and much more skill barriers. will also add that A Sonic Thing would be better fit for something like sonic robo blast 2, possibly some open source megadrive sonic platformer fan engine could be handled by codehaus too?
1. that includes the whole "bug fixes" thing i was proposing on smwcentral, right? as far as i've heard it's basically impossible to debug someone's asm without basically just knowing it well enough to be able to rewrite it? i don't really like the idea of being able to request one (1) bug fix a month to asm that's already on the database. it should be bug-free if it's on the database or just be removed.

2. this exists
https://opensurge2d.org/
though... yeah it's not like SMW/SMBX where it comes with all the official game graphics preloaded
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Re: romhack shack 改 (discord on OP, but don't abandon the thread!!!)

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TiKi wrote: 2 years ago 1. that includes the whole "bug fixes" thing i was proposing on smwcentral, right? as far as i've heard it's basically impossible to debug someone's asm without basically just knowing it well enough to be able to rewrite it? i don't really like the idea of being able to request one (1) bug fix a month to asm that's already on the database. it should be bug-free if it's on the database or just be removed.
to be fair there are people on smwc who write asm like they're high on bath salts like imamelia's shitty "Eight Bits One Assembler" technique which consistently results in barely legible shit full of conditionals

like i can sort of read some of carol's code, some of sonikku's code but imamelia is like. Ohoho OHOHO NO WE'RE FUCKING NOT
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Re: romhack shack 改 (discord on OP, but don't abandon the thread!!!)

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KobaBeach wrote: 2 years ago i haven't watched the video yet but most games should have bomb ass bosses as one of their core values and if it isn't then they should go all out on the one or two they may have (if it has zero (0) bosses then ignore my absurd suggestions)

take notes miyamoto you hack

jrpgs and treasure games have Destroyed me
thinking of this from the banjo-kazooie thread and yeah i am really not sure what even can be done about the boss situation in smw hacks in a mostly non-programmer society, where they mostly range from boring (vanilla koopalings) to boring *and* unfun (a lot of smwcentral bosses). i am a Boss Enjoyer and this greatly saddens me. anyone can call brutal mario and asmwcp's bosses bad all they like but at least they were a novel kind of badness (not even that all of them WERE bad! just saying that even the bad ones were at least new). i think i can count on one hand the amount of hacks whose' bosses have really paid off on their in-story or in-gameplay (i.e. big long castle) buildup in my opinion. and ironically one of them is just an invincible chargin' chuck
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Re: romhack shack 改 (discord on OP, but don't abandon the thread!!!)

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TiKi wrote: 2 years ago thinking of this from the banjo-kazooie thread and yeah i am really not sure what even can be done about the boss situation in smw hacks in a mostly non-programmer society, where they mostly range from boring (vanilla koopalings) to boring *and* unfun (a lot of smwcentral bosses). i am a Boss Enjoyer and this greatly saddens me. anyone can call brutal mario and asmwcp's bosses bad all they like but at least they were a novel kind of badness (not even that all of them WERE bad! just saying that even the bad ones were at least new). i think i can count on one hand the amount of hacks whose' bosses have really paid off on their in-story or in-gameplay (i.e. big long castle) buildup in my opinion. and ironically one of them is just an invincible chargin' chuck
i was actually gonna add that "non-asmers should ignore this" but

i will never stop memeing on bara toadsworth and anya by the way I Hate Em

i feel like the thing with bosses amongst asmers is that none of them really know how to design bosses. i only really know what i know due to decades of playing bad smw bosses and studying like konami/treasure stuff.

"studying" i watched like three videos and played alien soldier for epsilon eagle's fat bara kfc thighs. the ss2sonic pic of epsilon eagle is so good even though they're not porn (bastard only draws milfs) omg

carol's are like harmless if boring. there's a few that are painful (julius, god) but. i'm the rare kind of "human being" who'd take boring over bullshit. i will never play seven koopalings without savestates.

extra's are probably the worst. i was reminded of them recently and they are Offensively Bad.

sonikku knows how to design bosses, but he also never releases anything so Lmao.

I'd write a tutorial on my site, but I don't know how to start because designing a fun boss is so complex in terms of artistry.

i guess watch this video


also fuck you koopalings aren't boring
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Re: romhack shack 改 (discord on OP, but don't abandon the thread!!!)

Post by KobaBeach »

TiKi wrote: 2 years ago anyone can call brutal mario and asmwcp's bosses bad all they like but at least they were a novel kind of badness (not even that all of them WERE bad! just saying that even the bad ones were at least new).
The biggest issue with SMW bosses is that they tend to like, be very stupidly hard and not have any tells due to how they're programmed, I think most people on SMW don't really use jump tables that much? So a lot of boss coding is pretty rudimentary. For instance, you mentioned Brutal Mario and SMWCP on the hack thread and I'm just gonna bring up a few bosses:
* Kaptain K. Rool in Brutal is extremely huge, it's very hard for Mario to jump over him, the speed of the slime blobs is also too fast and hard to dodge, especially with the smaller arena and SMW physics. The invisible Ganon telefragging part of the battle requires absolute luck and there's nothing else you can do.
* Boss Dumb Drum is also too large, causes earthquakes, and moves too fast after a while.
* Yellow Devil MkII does not provide enough space to dodge the cell attack.
* Giga Kirby barely works, the aiming does not feel right
* The disco shell finagling you have to do against Lightgazer is really annoying.
* Ultima's Ultima doesn't really have any tells of where it'll hit, area too wide.
* Seven Koopalings is impressive but it's too much to fight RTA.
* Nova turns you into a one hit wonder due to requiring Yoshi.
* Mecha Dragon is basically King Jet without Lightning Bolt, which yikes.
* The rest of carols bosses range from mediocre to okay.

* Ersanio's Giant Spiny has overly fast fireballs and no tells before it attacks.
* Sonikku's Giant Mole is alright, it just could be a bit more aggro, maybe have a few assisting moles.
* Sonikku's Giant Koopa is perfect, I would just change it so it despawns the Koopas when it spawns more.
* Kickchon's Undine is King Shit, it's actively fighting its own design, you can't stand still to properly guide the ice ball due to the ice spires and the pushing wave, the pushing wave won't stay still and constantly pushes mario, the ice spires get in the way of properly guiding the ice ball to land on the pushing wave and Mario gets pushed towards them getting hit, or he just falls into the water due to the wave. It's hard for all the wrong reasons.
* Atma's Spiderball. 1) wow this is shit 2) you're using the clunky ass grab while climbing glitch to lead it into a hazard in the track, while it just shits out bombs and it's... wow. you have no control over this
* Sonikku's Tutankoopa has good tells, but I would just change it so the fact you have to drop a rock on his head is more obvious.
* anya has no design
* Toadsworth: i have so many questions and like five of them are: why would you use fuzzies as a grabbable object and not have any indication.
* Anya and Toadsworth seem to be designed by like boss design illiterate people, where they have attacks but they all feel pointless and are the most basic of basics and they are essentially nothing but filler. also earthquakes on toadsworth's end because OFC
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Re: romhack shack 改 (discord on OP, but don't abandon the thread!!!)

Post by TiKi »

yeah puresabe's while impressive aren't great either. so i guess there's not really much to be done about the issue of smw bosses being bad or showing up a lot huh (or in general, the idea of expecting a romhack to do things that the vanilla game didn't)
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Re: romhack shack 改 (discord on OP, but don't abandon the thread!!!)

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what
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Re: romhack shack 改 (discord on OP, but don't abandon the thread!!!)

Post by TiKi »

sorry if i didn't make it clear i was asking something, but do you think smw hack bosses will generally continue to be underwhelming for Boss Enjoyers
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