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Story in SMW Romhacks: What are your thoughts?

do you like them video games? what about those there romhacks? well pop on in here and talk about them then! what are you waiting for?!

Are they cool?

Yes!
0
No votes
Indifferent?
4
50%
No.
1
13%
Other (post why)
3
38%
 
Total votes: 8

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Daizo
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Story in SMW Romhacks: What are your thoughts?

Postby Daizo » 2 months ago

Taken the idea from this thread on SMW Central, but since the talkhaus has a completely different stance on plot from what I've seen, I thought it would be interesting to bring up here.

What's your stance on these? I'm in the middle of developing one, and I've seen the many talks on both sides of the coin throughout the years. Some say it enhances the themes that can't be explained through level design alone, bringing context to further give a reason to play the game. Others say they are pointless and SMW Hacks should just be about the fun and creative levels you're able to design.

Share your thoughts, I guess. :rao:
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Re: Story in SMW Romhacks: What are your thoughts?

Postby raekuul » 2 months ago

I very strongly believe in the "Show, don't Tell" philosophy. I don't mind SMW games having a plot - even an intricate one - but the engine doesn't lend itself particularly well to text, and a lot of first time hackers think "Lots of Text == Lots of Plot" when it really doesn't. It really doesn't.

Granted, there's only so much you can do to show plot in the SMW engine as well, short of dedicating sublevels to non- or semi-interactive cutscenes. SMW is probably best used with excuse plots like what vanilla has.

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Re: Story in ASMT Romhacks: What are your thoughts?

Postby Awoo » 2 months ago

the castle of absolutely no significance whatsoever had absolutely no significance whatsoever
:demo:
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ano0maly
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Re: Story in SMW Romhacks: What are your thoughts?

Postby ano0maly » 2 months ago

Awoo wrote: the castle of absolutely no significance whatsoever had absolutely no significance whatsoever
:demo:
that's not a romhack
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Re: Story in SMW Romhacks: What are your thoughts?

Postby YelseyKing » 2 months ago

I don't mind plot in SMW hacks... though I'll admit, I'm not a huge fan of "Mario is a jackass"/"Luigi is the *actual* villain" plots. They've kind of been overdone.
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Re: Story in SMW Romhacks: What are your thoughts?

Postby Leet » 2 months ago

"I think you should just try to build your story around the game. Like don't have a fully featured serious RPG plot in a standard gameplay hack because it will just feel silly. Unfortunately this is how most hacks like this end up."

To expand on this: I think what I would do (were I in this position) would be to start off with an excuse plot and then build up to eventually having a more complicated plot by the very end. If you make the plot complement the rest of the game you will endear the player to it. If you start off with a bunch of stuff that the player has no reason to care about, they will find it a distraction to button through and this is unlikely to change.
Well it is a decent hack but sometime its just too repetitif there no level that actually pop in your face and your like oh yeah that level they all ressemble themselves and just monster along the way.
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Re: Story in SMW Romhacks: What are your thoughts?

Postby KobaBeach » 2 months ago

raekuul and leet said it all, honestly.

a lot of the more b-list jrpgs (like arc the lad, star ocean, tales of phantasia, final fantasy viii, wild arms) have really dumb anime plots that make for a good time in a sort of so dumb it's great way because they're well paced with the gameplay portions for the most part (arc the lad 1 feels more like just an 8 hour long visual novel with occasional srpg segments mixed in with all the pointless text it has though), but mario hack plots just get in the way with the vwf cutscene thing, it's just an endless stream of fanfic-level WORDSWORDSWORDS and i'm just like "when are they gonna get to the fireworks factory" i.e. the mario gameplay

the only plot i've ever cared about was Brutal Mario (post-demo 7) and it's because it's funny and it's actually well integrated to (what there is of) the gameplay, like you finish the special world and the plot thread comes riding in with a fucking bara toad coming out to kick your ass followed with the terrorist attack on yoshi's house and the beginning of the journey to the Mushroom Kingdom which was previously hovering in the distance with the three secret exits that lead to it.

VIP4's excuse plot is kind of well done too if you're familiar with Romancing SaGa 3, because in that game, the abyss gates were opened by the power of the Morastrum (Death Eclipse in an old translation patch), sorta foreshadowing the Abyss Gate at the end of the game. The linking of the eggs you get with the Koopalings with boss Detteiu with the Seven Memes subplot is also really well done, and it's all mostly vanilla outside of a hijack I believe?

plot is something i've never cared for in mario, outside of like smrpg? like i'm only in it for the gameplay.

like if you're gonna do plot please keep the the necessary dialogue concise and to the point.
again, "Show, Don't Tell".

sorry if any of this discourages you. i'm not a writer (outside of some furry bullshit i've done a few times and might do again that i will not torture anyone here with), but i'd consider looking into some story focused games, like in the mario franchise even and see how they integrate plot into the gameplay.

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YelseyKing wrote: I'm not a huge fan of "Mario is a jackass"/"Luigi is the *actual* villain" plots. They've kind of been overdone.
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Re: Story in SMW Romhacks: What are your thoughts?

Postby BobisOnlyBob » 2 months ago

I quite like ASMT's plot. It clearly had a frame story, an Otacon parody character to introduce each world, and it all foreshadowed one of the most intense and dramatic bosses in SMW history (King Charles). Ultimately the plot isn't important and Demo cares as little as the average player, but its existence improves the overall experience, significantly I'd say. A bit like DOOM 2016 - you can totally ignore if you don't care for it, but the few key moments give it a lot of flavour. (Doom of course also had massive lore logs and one awful lock-in cutscene, but that's besides the point).
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Re: Story in ASMT Universe : What are your thoughts?

Postby Awoo » 2 months ago

ano0maly wrote:
Awoo wrote: the castle of absolutely no significance whatsoever had absolutely no significance whatsoever
:demo:
that's not a romhack
Oh, right, that was ASMBXT:PttS not ASMT
BobisOnlyBob wrote: I quite like ASMT's plot. It clearly had a frame story, an Otacon parody character to introduce each world, and it all foreshadowed one of the most intense and dramatic bosses in SMW history (King Charles). Ultimately the plot isn't important and Demo cares as little as the average player, but its existence improves the overall experience, significantly I'd say.
Precisely :demo:
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