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Determination.

do you like them video games? what about those there romhacks? well pop on in here and talk about them then! what are you waiting for?!
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Zummorr
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Re: Determination.

Postby Zummorr » 3 years ago

Rockythechao wrote:I don't recall having to

call Papyrus to befriend Undyne either, just having to befriend Papyrus and give Undyne the glass of water.

I could be wrong. Could've sworn you needed to call back Papyrus in that hallway though.
Rockythechao wrote:

As for the genocide route, Toby meant for it to be one big statement about completionism - that players do whatever it takes in order to get every achievement and see every outcome, and in the process they, as you said, treat game characters as just stats. I figure the route was designed to be tedious..."

I suppose, but iirc the genocide route is also Tobee's favorite route (citation needed) Also I've never been a fan of any argument "Well it's supposed to not be fun thats the point!" I mean thats actually the point with Trio the Punch! but like it doesn't forgive it for being bad.

I would think that you could make an anti-completionist theme while still having the game be fun.
The point I was trying to make regarding Chara's statement, and Chara in general is that it doesn't really fit and just seems to be an afterthought as it's shoe-horned in at the end. I'm just not sold on Chara being the "Completionist archetype" I see the subtle points as she overtakes the PC. But I don't find her cohesive to the themes. I suppose it's more perplexing than a "You murdered everyone accessible in the underground but you have no human soul anymore so you cannot escape. Wah Wah Wah"



btw it's perfectly fine to be biased. I'm totally biased too! One of my favorite RPGs is Grandia and I fully accept that the game has a carton of problems. We just need to respect other people even in light of their biased opinions.
I like Breath of Fire and it's waaay worse than Undertale.

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Euparkeria
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Re: Determination.

Postby Euparkeria » 3 years ago

To express my feelings towards this game, I love it. I love its overblown characters too; don't ask why, I just do. Maybe I'm that simple. But anyway, the only thing that really disappointed me was the lack of difficulty. Since the demo days, I had the impression a peaceful run would be the ultimate, unforgiving challenge where you had to fight for your survival and your unthankful ideology to finally face against evil

(Flowey) and convince a "relentless killer" to spare you.

I was ready to suffer, no, I wanted to suffer. But I didn't really suffer, just had a few parts where I couldn't figure out a boss.

Haven't tried hard mode, though.

The only seriously challenging stuff is apparently in the violent route, which i can't go through because I'm apparently a coward. Now, I understand it's kinda ridiculous to demand having everything rewarding be in the peace route, but it annoys me how Flowey planted a false expectation about impossible obstacles. Story-wise, the peaceful ending is all I hoped for, so no complaints there. Would have felt sweeter to have to earn it, still.

Cool banner by Neutron Star!
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Coryman
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Re: Determination.

Postby Coryman » 3 years ago

Fair enough. Some parts of the game are pretty much just get-through-the-dialogue.
Funnily enough, I've never played the game, but between my friend, brother and YouTube, I've seen all the endings.
raocow wrote: In a world where shag carpeting wins a fight against a helicopter, we spend a lot of time reading and comparing numbers.

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raekuul
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Re: Determination.

Postby raekuul » 3 years ago

Coryman wrote:Fair enough. Some parts of the game are pretty much just get-through-the-dialogue.
That's part and parcel of an RPG, but yeah Undertale had a lot of wordiness for what's effectively an eight-hour game at most.

Regarding Muffet: She's a Giant Space Flea from Nowhere of the slightly foreshadowed kind, which isn't exactly helping her case. Her presence in the game is the result of a Kickstarter reward tier. We could easily have had a literal flea, or Kood, or even potentially Jack Noir had the tierwinner requested such. What's confusing for me is that her encounter is required for completion, while the other buy-in for that tier (and the buy-in for the top tier) is not.

All I'm going to say about Hard Mode for those who haven't done it yet: It's even more of a commentary on gamer mindsets than a Genocide run gets.

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Whimsical Calamari
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Re: Determination.

Postby Whimsical Calamari » 3 years ago

raekuul wrote:
Coryman wrote:Fair enough. Some parts of the game are pretty much just get-through-the-dialogue.
That's part and parcel of an RPG, but yeah Undertale had a lot of wordiness for what's effectively an eight-hour game at most.
my game lasted 8 hours because i made an effort to get the wordiest experience possible lol

i tried to read absolutely everything

(so i guess you could say i was ok with that aspect of it)
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Tenlade
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Re: Determination.

Postby Tenlade » 3 years ago

Rockythechao wrote:I don't recall having to

call Papyrus to befriend Undyne either, just having to befriend Papyrus and give Undyne the glass of water.



As for the genocide route, Toby meant for it to be one big statement about completionism - that players do whatever it takes in order to get every achievement and see every outcome, and in the process they, as you said, treat game characters as just stats. I figure the route was designed to be tedious, unsettling and unsatisfying to really drive that point home and deter the player from selling their soul, and the soulless pacifist endings really hammer in that feeling of "was it worth it?"

unfortunately for this game, its message has had the opposite effect.
The incredibly difficult bosses also make them the game's greatest challenge, so now its turned into having to do a bunch of bad grinding to fight the two best bosses in the game.

The game calling me out for treating things like code is dumb, they are code.they can guilt trip me all they want but they still all will cease to exist when the game closes.Still well written characters though, which is likely why they were sadly turned into memes.
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HamsterZerg
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Re: Determination.

Postby HamsterZerg » 3 years ago

@Tenlade:

Thanks for giving me another reason to take Genocide runs very personally. I needed that.

Dropping the sarcasm, you should probably stop looking at the code itself and start looking at what the code represents. After all, nobody in their right mind would tell you that your favorite book series is "just words". They recognize that the words represent something, just like Undertale's code.

This has been today's "Life Advice from HamsterZerg".

Also,

who here is willing to bet that Frisk is a Madrigal?

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Zummorr
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Re: Determination.

Postby Zummorr » 3 years ago

HamsterZerg wrote: Dropping the sarcasm, you should probably stop looking at the code itself and start looking at what the code represents. After all, nobody in their right mind would tell you that your favorite book series is "just words". They recognize that the words represent something, just like Undertale's code.
I respect that you hold the genocide run and the content of the game with such weight and standing. :)

This discussion reminds me of a Cucumber Quest page.
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HamsterZerg
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Re: Determination.

Postby HamsterZerg » 3 years ago

Zummorr wrote:
HamsterZerg wrote: Dropping the sarcasm, you should probably stop looking at the code itself and start looking at what the code represents. After all, nobody in their right mind would tell you that your favorite book series is "just words". They recognize that the words represent something, just like Undertale's code.
I respect that you hold the genocide run and the content of the game with such weight and standing. :)

This discussion reminds me of a Cucumber Quest page.
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Crap, I said something deep without meaning to, didn't I?

Well, what's said is said.

And I'm still curious as to whether or not anybody here is willing to bet that Frisk is a Madrigal.

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Avatar by Skully (artwork) and bkamakaze (size). Thanks, guys!
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Zummorr
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Re: Determination.

Postby Zummorr » 3 years ago

HamsterZerg wrote:
Crap, I said something deep without meaning to, didn't I?

Well, what's said is said.

And I'm still curious as to whether or not anybody here is willing to bet that Frisk is a Madrigal.

Not particularly. I just find it admirable that you take the fiction seriously. And I'm glad you enjoy it in your way. For others exploring the other pages and seeing everything how they enjoy it.

also I didn't want demean your post and point of view by posting a comic page out of the blue. I just felt the page was humorous.

Regarding.
Is Frisk a Madrigal? I don't even know the significance of a Madrigal is that a reference to something in Homestuck? or a weird mutation of Magical-girl?

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HamsterZerg
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Re: Determination.

Postby HamsterZerg » 3 years ago

Zummorr wrote:Regarding.
Is Frisk a Madrigal? I don't even know the significance of a Madrigal is that a reference to something in Homestuck? or a weird mutation of Magical-girl?

No, it's something from The 39 Clues. The Madrigals are the branch of the Cahill family that are generally more peaceful than the others.



Also, I didn't feel that demeaned by the comic page.
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Zummorr
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Re: Determination.

Postby Zummorr » 3 years ago

HamsterZerg wrote:

No, it's something from The 39 Clues. The Madrigals are the branch of the Cahill family that are generally more peaceful than the others.



Also, I didn't feel that demeaned by the comic page.

Ahh that it explains it. reference was kinda lost on me



Well thats good.

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Merlin
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Re: Determination.

Postby Merlin » 2 years ago

I honestly just adore this game
still can't get enough of it after all this time
just motherfucking pure love

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metasomnia?
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Re: Determination.

Postby metasomnia? » 2 years ago

One day when I was bored and had nothing to do, I decided to do a number of things that resulted in this
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