raocow's talkhaus

I don't think I can go on living without Hyrule Warriors.

Did anyone pay attention to the Amiibo explanation they gave? If you buy a Mario figurine, it works on every game as Mario. It doesn't matter if you bought the regular Mario or Smash Mario or whatever.

Also, the AI training sounds just like the one in that one PS2 Virtua Fighter.

I overslept and missed Nintendo's E3 showing unfortunately, but I was able to get some info from the onslaught of coverage videos and trailer repostings.

-Pokemon OR/AS looked awesome as expected.
-Mario Maker didn't seem too impressive, though honestly I wasn't holding high expectations for it.
-Zelda Wii U looked freakin amazing, and I really want to see more of it.
-Yoshi's Wooly World I'm still kind of torn on, it looks sort of interesting, but at the same time, I never really got into Kirby's Epic Yarn. I did notice Yoshi's Wooly World looks like it has a health system, which Epic Yarn didn't.
-Mario Party 10 might be interesting with the whole Bowser thing, but I still think the car should've been a one-off thing or an optional feature, I mean it can be interesting at times, but I miss the old Mario Party mechanics. Also most of the people that I play Mario Party with don't like 9.
-Splatoon looks like a pretty neat concept that I would be interested to try out.
-Palutena in Smash I'm pretty excited for, even though admittedly I haven't gotten very far in Uprising yet. We need more kickass Nintendo females! :D
-I haven't seen it yet, but yeah, I think I would be pretty salty about the Mother 3 thing. You have GBA games on the virtual console Nintendo! That should be your big opportunity to get people off your backs! Not to mention, you just made an Earthbound VC port not too long ago and it did pretty good from what I've heard!
-The rest I either don't have a strong opinion on yet, or haven't gotten around to seeing.

Maybe they'll get XSeed to translate and port Mother 3. It's a pretty reasonable possibility these days.

I'm having fun watching the Smash Tournament, anyone else?

I'm fine without watching it, but I'm glad they're doing this.

You just missed Megaman's Final Smash.
He shoots a black hole, that then sucks in players for a cutscene.

You know, isn't the point of Mega Evolving your pokemon to give them like, ridiculous stats so they can obliterate everything?

What's the point of giving LEGENDARY pokemon a Mega Evolution? Aren't they already supposed to be the best of the best?

Also, I've never played the Xenoblade game that came out for the Wii, but that trailer for the Wii U one looked really REALLY anime-y... and not in the good way.
Like, I feel like it was going for a really anime plotline or whatever and it just seemed over the top.
Maybe it was the fact that it was all in Japanese? I dunno. But damn when it started up with that hologram sequence and the choir like music I really thought it was gonna be another Metroid since it was very reminiscent of the Metroid Prime Trilogy title screen sequence...

Also the character models looked really weird to me...

I didn't like any of the character models in the Xenoblade game they showed off. It's like they did a literal interpretation of how an anime character would look in 3D and it just looks weird.

My stream-of-consciousness thoughts as I finally got around to watching Nintendo's show. Kind of like a delayed Twitter feed.

Robot Chicken segments: Robot Chicken doesn't really work in a G-rated context.

Smash Bros.: Isn't it at least a decade late to be doing Matrix parodies? Anyway, the game looks solid, although I'm hesitant about the balance on Miis with customisable movesets. Still, Hitler confirmed for Smash Bros and guaranteed to be in online multiplayer matches.

Also if those figurines actually change gameplay then fuck that shit, that's pay to win. And if Nintendo really want to escape being stereotyped as a kiddie company, making little toys is not going to help at all. It'll just make it worse.

Ameebo: Oh shit they actually are doing that. The other games they mentioned are Disney Infinity and Skylanders. Note how they're both kids' games. Congratulations Nintendo on diminishing the mass appeal of one of your few franchises to still have it. And now it's going to be in Mario Kart 8 too, one of the other few franchises to still have mass appeal. Nice one.

Reggie's Nostalgia Wank Monologue: "You can always rely on Nintendo". Probably should have said that before Other M & Skyward Sword. "There's never been a better time to play Nintendo". Except for the times they had successful consoles with solid third-party support. This monologue would have been a lot more appropriate had it happened during the Wii's heyday.

Yoshi's Wooly World: No-one liked Kirby's Epic Yarn, so why would anyone like this? Particularly riding off the back of how badly Yoshi's New Island was received. I hear the music is still bad, although not as bad as New Island. Still that's a super-low bar. Also this game is so sugary sweet that I'm pretty sure I now have diabetes.

They keep talking about the differences to gameplay, like transformation, that yarn adds, but Yoshi's always been able to transform. That's not new, and I'm not seeing anything else differ in how it reacts. For all their talk about how the yarn makes all the difference to the gameplay, I'm just seeing a Yoshi game that looks different but still plays like Yoshi.

Captain Toad: Treasure Tracker: Oh look, it's everyone's least favourite part of 3D World, now in its own game! Woo and yay! And here I was thinking Mario was immune from the puzzle cancer that killed Zelda. There's a lot of impressive new graphical work and assets in the game compared to 3D World. Things have reached a pretty pass when Nintendo have moved on from shafting 2D Mario in favour of 3D Mario to shafting 3D Mario in favour of 3D puzzle-fest Mario.

The Legend of Zelda: "Last year, I said that revisiting the conventions of the Zelda series would be our theme for Wii U". Considering that they guy saying this is on record as hating the first two Zeldas and saying his favourite part of LttP was cutting grass, I'm going to take that with a mountain of salt. Unless of course he means the conventions since he took over the series in which case I believe him 100%.

"After the series transitioned to 3D it became harder for us to create a wild world... it was very hard to create a wide world where everything felt connected". For you, perhaps, but don't pretend that The Elder Scrolls and many others didn't do it just fine.

And, once again, the new Zelda looks nothing like the preceding tech demo. Why do Nintendo keep making their tech demos look like serious Zelda when they're just going to junk the assets every time and go back to cel-shading? This is the third time they've done that now and it certainly doesn't help anyone trust Aonuma when he says anything about the series, especially when he always compares the new games to the older ones as they grow to resemble the older ones less and less and less.

"We couldn't create such a wide world in the past". *cough*Elder Scrolls*cough*. And on hardware comparable to previous Nintendo hardware too. Don't pretend it was due to anything other than an active development choice to make it linear.

"The world is generally peaceful". Has he even played the original? The overworld is anything but peaceful!

Generally what he's saying is very promising but this is Aonuma. He's a confirmed liar. I'll believe it when I actually see it in a finished game. I have a sinking feeling that the dungeons and whatever other quests appear, if there are any, will still be puzzle-dominated because that's what Zelda is now.

Also, either that final battle is pre-rendered or it's a QTE.

Pokemon Omega Ruby & Alpha Sapphire: It's Pokemon. Not much more to say except I think they're pretty close to running out of titles by now. Oh hell's teeth I remember those biking segments now. That one tower I fell down again and again. It's all coming back.

Bayonetta & Bayonetta 2: Haven't really followed this at all. I'm getting the impression that they're in Hell though. They might need to say it a few times though for me to be sure. Wait, Link's in the game? And has anime length legs? I'm out of the loop.

Hyrule Warriors: Dammit Aonuma's involved in this too. I'm extremely happy to see a Zelda that's focussed on combat once again although it's disappointing to see that that's been relegated to a spinoff game. I played Dynasty Warriors once and wasn't the biggest fan of how it played but on the combat alone it's a vast improvement over modern Zelda. I'm much more excited for this than the actual Wii U Zelda, unless a genuine miracle occurs and Aonuma isn't lying through his teeth about the actual Zelda being different.

Kirby and the Rainbow Curse: This looks exactly like the last Kirby game to do the whole draw on the screen thing. I'm still not sure why you'd take a character with a unique mechanic - copying his enemies' abilities - and make games that don't really use that. It's still a kind of fun game but why make it a Kirby game and not a distinct IP?

Xenoblade Chronicles: Again, another series I haven't followed. Couldn't they have found the time to dub this trailer though? Personally I'm a fan of subs over dubs anyway but I'm aware that I'm a minority for that. It seems like an odd business decision. And the subtitles in this case don't really seem localised, for want of a better word. Some of it sounds a little stilted.

Mario Maker: Now you too can enjoy hundreds of thousands of different people's recreations of 1-1, only on Wii U, for only $60! Seriously though I would never buy a game that doesn't actually include a game in it. I'm also suspicious that this game will be the future excuse for Nintendo finally doing what it's always wanted to do, and in fact did do for the 16 years between SMW and NSMB, which is to stop making 2D Mario entirely. Now they can just say that we already have an infinite number of 2D Marios to play with Mario Maker.

The way that voice says "Congratulations!" is hilariously bad. It's like something I'd expect from a deliberately bad parody.

Free floating piranha plants? Not on stems?! The horror!

Can you really only choose between SMB and NSMB? What about SMB2? What about SMB3? What about SMW? What about SML? What about SML2? They're all exceedingly popular games that all sold over 10 million copies each (well, SMB2 only sold 7.5 million, but that wasn't released in Japan. And still, 7.5 million!). Why would you shaft them?

Splatoon: This looks pretty good actually. I've been in need of a fun class-based team-based shooter ever since TF2 lost its direction completely and became an unfocussed mess. It's got a strong De Blob vibe going on and that was a pretty fun game. I hope it has local multiplayer as well as online, since I've always preferred local, but given the strong focus on the gamepad controls that seems unlikely. Still, seems promising.

More Smash Bros.: Saturday morning cartoons confirmed for Smash Bros! I feel like I need to revert to age 8 or 9 to watch this and ideally I should be watching in my pyjamas while eating sugary cereal. Must remember to discuss this with the other kids during recess on Monday.

Boob shot to keep the animators from getting bored.

And hey, Palutena confirmed for Smash Bros. I never thought I'd hear a diving being say "auto-reticule". I hope she doesn't actually call out her attacks. It works for Captain Falcon since he's a walking embodiment of ham and cheese but Palutena? Not so much.

It's edgy fanfiction Pit! Actually, Googling it, he's a real character. Huh. I assume he's just a palette swap.

Miyamoto's Token Appearance: Either that screen's deliberately blurred or someone doesn't know how to focus a camera. Also Miyamoto is super awkward and stilted for some reason.

Overall Impressions: There's three games that look promising to me (Smash Bros, Splatoon & Hyrule Warriors) with Zelda U as a one in a million outside shot if Aonuma is actually telling the truth. I assume Star Fox U is also happening since they had an audience member mention it. Here's hoping it's proper Star Fox and not Star Fox Adventures. I'm not surprised to see that F-Zero remains dead (due to the poor sales of GX and Miyamoto not liking it) and Metroid remains dead too (thanks to Other M). Honestly I'd prefer that Metroid stays dead rather than have Other M 2. Overall, not too good, not too bad. Pretty much what I was expecting.

You assume everyone hates Kirby's Epic Yarn and the Toad levels, when I see quite a lot of people actually liked them.

Also, Pac-man is in Smash. For such an important announcement, I hate how low-key it was. It was only announced during a roundtable discussion, no sign of a trailer that Pacman deserves.

oh shit what, I love me some Pac Man. Saw the trailer and agree that he didn't get a big introduction like Palutena did. Glad to see he's in Smash though.
also no ham and cheese announced : (, hopefully they aren't announcing secret characters or something

I actually quite liked the Captain Toad levels in 3D world, they were a nice little break from all the runk and rumpus during normal game-play.

also I wish the whole thing with statues would kind of die off because ehhh opinions

Pac-Man trailer.

Hahaha, this actually fits super well. I'm happy to see him here!

Sebby19 wrote:You assume everyone hates Kirby's Epic Yarn and the Toad levels, when I see quite a lot of people actually liked them.

You and Sturg are literally the first people I've ever heard say they like either.

I've never played Kirby's Epic Yarn but I loved the Captain Toad levels. As did all of my friends! Well, all of them that have a Wii U at any rate.

Doctor Shemp wrote:

Sebby19 wrote:You assume everyone hates Kirby's Epic Yarn and the Toad levels, when I see quite a lot of people actually liked them.

You and Sturg are literally the first people I've ever heard say they like either.

To be honest, I really like Kirby's Epic Yarn.
I just feel the game was far removed from standard Kirby action, which isn't a bad thing, just weird.

No clue about Captain Toad, haven't played 3D World.

Doctor Shemp, honestly, a lot of what you said seemed very unfair to me.

For one, there was no "G-Rated context" for the Robot Chicken segments. Though obviously Nintendo didn't outright try to capitalize on the fact, the presentation was preceded by a mature rating warning. And even though they did keep them toned down, both me and the friends I was watching it with live found them amusing and refreshing. I personally love the less serious direction Nintendo's been taking compared to the previous few years. And true humor can always be G-Rated. To imply that any form of humor is lost in a G-Rated context implies that the humor comes from obscenity, which is only true of the most immature forms of "humor".

And honestly, especially with Treasure Tracker, you seem to be assuming that just because you strictly disliked something, everyone else did as well.

Doctor Shemp wrote:

Sebby19 wrote:You assume everyone hates Kirby's Epic Yarn and the Toad levels, when I see quite a lot of people actually liked them.

You and Sturg are literally the first people I've ever heard say they like either.

I liked both as well. Epic Yarn was cute even though I liked Return to Dream Land more, and the Toad levels definitely looked like they could be expanded upon. There you go.

I like Epic Yarn, though the only other Kirby game that I was really able to get into was the first one so my opinion may not count. Haven't gotten to 3D World yet but the Captain Toad levels look fun to me.

Doctor Shemp wrote:I have a sinking feeling that the dungeons and whatever other quests appear, if there are any, will still be puzzle-dominated because that's what Zelda is now.

Zelda has always been very puzzley though, from the first game and trying to figure out how to get places, to the first dungeon of OoT. Only really LttP and Zelda II weren't puzzley afaik.

Doctor Shemp wrote: Considering that they guy saying this is on record as hating the first two Zeldas and saying his favourite part of LttP was cutting grass, I'm going to take that with a mountain of salt.

Tbf the first two games are pretty terrible comparing to today's offering. LoZ NES was revolutionary but nowadays its just outclassed by everything else they've done with the series.

Doctor Shemp wrote: *cough*Elder Scrolls*cough*

Correct me if I'm wrong but I think their aim is to make a world that all flows really well together with quests and whatnot that link together, comparable to Majora's Mask and how well that world fit together. Skyrim is a wide world but I ASSUME that it's not really all that interlocked as they're wanting to go for.

Doctor Shemp wrote:

Sebby19 wrote:You assume everyone hates Kirby's Epic Yarn and the Toad levels, when I see quite a lot of people actually liked them.

You and Sturg are literally the first people I've ever heard say they like either.

It's weird, I've played 3D World but never a Captain Toad level. I didn't even know they were in there, I assumed Teasure Tracker was a whole new thing. That being said I looked up gameplay of the Toad levels in 3D World and I kinda dig what I see. I'm excited for Treasure Tracker, looks like it could be fun.

whuh im confused

shemp why are you acting like zelda didnt have puzzles in the past

Zelda 1 was bare-bones, but they were there. Not much, and I don't know much about Zelda 2, but the only way you could say puzzles killed zelda was if you mean it were killed after the first two.

Zelda 3 (LttP) did indeed have a higher focus on combat than some later games, but it also began making puzzles common dungeon fixtures. Zelda 4 (Link's Awakening) was very puzzle-oriented. I would count these four zeldas as "early zelda". And what came after, Ocarina of Time, also had lots of puzzles, though not as much as LA... theres almost always been puzzles in zelda. its... kind of a huge part of the game. like, when i go to play a zelda game i dont really care much about the non-boss combat most of the time. really i like the exploration more than anything - which is why zelda wii u sounds amazing.

No-one liked Kirby's Epic Yarn

it sold

Things have reached a pretty pass when Nintendo have moved on from shafting 2D Mario in favour of 3D Mario to shafting 3D Mario in favour of 3D puzzle-fest Mario.

thats ... why its a spin off

they just made a main 3d mario like just recently ._.

Don't pretend it was due to anything other than an active development choice to make it linear.

uh... he wasnt talking about the technical aspect in the slightest. it was how they would go about it. sure, they probably could've made this game before, but they were still developing ideas. this ideas been around for a while and they figured out how they want to do it. its called... making art

"The world is generally peaceful". Has he even played the original? The overworld is anything but peaceful!

that is 1 zelda game out of like 20

the original, sure, but... 1. 1 game.

i for one am very very happy nintodo is making cool things

Ignoritus wrote: For one, there was no "G-Rated context" for the Robot Chicken segments.

A better phrasing would be that Robot Chicken doesn't work well in a corporate context. Have you seen Robot Chicken? Anyone with more than a cursory knowledge of it would tell you that what you saw, funny or not, was a pale imitation of Robot Chicken. I'll explain in more detail.

• Robot Chicken moves at a fast pace and doesn't care if you don't keep up. These didn't. The prime example of that is the Little Mac sketch. The first line is someone asking if Little Mac always wears gloves. You can tell that line was added under corporate direction because although it makes sure everyone understands what's going on it breaks the golden rule of comedy: you don't explain the joke. By saying that you immediately make the punchline (that Little Mac is going to spill the coffee) blindingly obvious. If this was an actual Robot Chicken sketch it would have just been Little Mac goes up to the coffee machine, tries to work it, spills it everywhere, cut to the next sketch. 6 or 7 seconds max.
• Robot Chicken is over-the-top. If someone gets hurt, for example, it will always be in the most painful way possible. Again, if the Little Mac sketch was an actual Robot Chicken sketch, I can guarantee that the coffee would have gone in his face or his groin and be accompanied by screaming. Actually, a more likely scenario would be that it would go in someone else's face. I would expect them to do the sketch like this: Little Mac is flirting with a female Nintendo character, probably Peach, near the coffee machine. He tries to pour a coffee but fumbles it and it goes in her face. She screams, turns around and falls into Bowser, knocking him forwards onto his stomach. He collides with the back of someone's legs as he goes down, causing them to fall backwards onto his spikes and impale themselves. They'd probably fling something out as they fall which would hit someone else in an extremely over-the-top violent chain reaction that would end with a closeup of Little Mac's horrified face, or cut back repeatedly to it during the sketch, then cut to the next one. Think the Salad Days sketch from Monty Python if you've seen that. There's no way any corporate show would approve that version.
• Robot Chicken attacks everyone indiscriminately and in an over-the-top way. In this corporate Robot Chicken, a fan asks disdainfully if they're making Star Fox U. If it was real robot chicken, it would have been their recurring nerd character (who has freckles, big glasses and a bow tie, and speaks with an exaggerated lisp) and they would have said something along the lines of "When is Nintendo making Thtar Fox U? I need to be reunited with the beautiful Krythtal! Oh, Krythtal, you hold the keyth to my heart...". For obvious reasons that wouldn't fly in a corporate setting either.

So, funny or not (although I dispute strongly that the Little Mac sketch was funny since they broke the golden rule), it wasn't Robot Chicken. That's what I meant by Robot Chicken not working in that context.

Ignoritus wrote:And honestly, especially with Treasure Tracker, you seem to be assuming that just because you strictly disliked something, everyone else did as well.

No, I was assuming that because everyone I've played it with and everyone I know IRL who has it always had the same reaction to the Toad segments: annoyance and frustration that the whole pace of the game slowed down to move slow-arse Toad around, a problem that's exacerbated by stopping every 5 seconds to turn the camera around or wait for the even slower platforms to align because you can't jump. That's great for another reaction from them if they haven't played the game before: "I can't jump? In a Mario game? Seriously? Wow." And, if they know their games, followed by "But Toad could jump in Mario 2. And move fast. What the hell?" And if you say that a puzzle platformer needs to be slow, I'll slap you. Lemmings was a massive hit, is still a classic, and was a fast-moving puzzle platformer.

I liked Epic Yarn

This one was admittedly based on less evidence. However, I do know people, and quite a few of them, who didn't touch the game solely because of its artstyle. Did anyone pick up the game solely because of its artstyle? This applies to cel-shaded Zelda too. Remember how many people were turned off by Wind Waker? If you have an artstyle that you know turns people off, why would you reuse it?

Leet wrote:it sold

1.99 million to an install base of 101.1 million. For a first-party game that's pathetic. Even Link's Crossbow Training sold more. Hell, even Wii Music sold more.

Leet wrote:

Doctor Shemp wrote:Don't pretend [making modern Zelda linear] was due to anything other than an active development choice to make it linear.

uh... he wasnt talking about the technical aspect in the slightest. it was how they would go about it. sure, they probably could've made this game before, but they were still developing ideas.

Then why did he say "we couldn't make this game before" rather than "we didn't make this game before"? "Couldn't" means there was something actively preventing them from doing so. Since at least the Wii and possibly the GameCube, there's no technical reason why they couldn't (I'll grant that it would be technically impossible on N64). "Couldn't" either therefore means that they were explicitly told that they couldn't or that, once again, Aonuma's lying to cover himself and save face.

Leet wrote:but the only way you could say puzzles killed zelda was if you mean it were killed after the first two.

The first three actually, but otherwise that is what I'm saying. Killed slowly, though, not suddenly. It's a little out of date as it's missing Link Between Worlds, but look at the trendlines.

Skyward Sword, the ultimate in puzzles over combat, sold 3.75 million to an install base of 101.1 million. That means that 3.7% of Wii owners bought Skyward Sword. Now, if you want to bring up the argument that "casuals" owned the Wii, then you're stupid for using that term. If you want to instead say that the mass market was much more interested in the Wii than in any previous Nintendo console since the NES, that's a fair point, so let's look at the NES Zeldas. We'll take Zelda 2 since that sold worse than Zelda 1 so we can give modern Zelda the biggest help it can get. Zelda 2 sold 4.38 million to an install base of 61.91 million. That means that 7.1% of NES owners bought Zelda 2. So even the least appealing Zelda on the NES, that everyone these days likes to pretend was universally hated as "the black sheep", was 91.9% more appealing to the mass market than Skyward Sword was. That's an incredible decline. And, to cap it off, Zelda 2 was released during a North American cartridge shortage when they couldn't make enough copies of Zelda 2 to meet demand. It was sold out in most states for months and months. Even under-represented Zelda 2 walks all over SS in sales.

If you want to look at it in a way that's simpler still, consider this: Zelda was the 5th best selling game on NES and Zelda II was the 8th best. Twilight Princess was the 17th best selling game on Wii and Skyward Sword was the 30th best.

And if you want to look at it in the simplest possible way, which dungeon in Ocarina has the biggest emphasis on puzzles? And which Ocarina dungeon is so universally reviled to this day that it still has a meme based on hatred for it? They're one and the same. It's The emphasis on puzzles over combat and linear stories over open-world exploration has transformed Zelda from a series with mass appeal into a series with niche appeal. It may be that you are that niche that prefers the series that way (looking straight at you Bwarch) but you're still a niche.

Bwarch wrote:Zelda has always been very puzzley though, from the first game and trying to figure out how to get places

That's not a puzzle. That's having an open world. An open world doesn't just mean a big empty overworld that you chuck places in like Ocarina, Majora, Wind Waker & Twilight. It means hidden things that you can explore and places that put you in danger, like Elder Scrolls or Fallout. It's an adventure around a mysterious and dangerous place, not a stroll around a giant backyard.

Saying that Zelda has always been first and foremost about the puzzles is as gross a distortion of gaming history as Sakamoto's claim that Metroid was always about Samus' maternal instincts.

Then why did he say "we couldn't make this game before" rather than "we didn't make this game before"? "Couldn't" means there was something actively preventing them from doing so. Since at least the Wii and possibly the GameCube, there's no technical reason why they couldn't (I'll grant that it would be technically impossible on N64). "Couldn't" either therefore means that they were explicitly told that they couldn't or that, once again, Aonuma's lying to cover himself and save face.

but they couldnt because they hadnt worked it out yet. i mean, its not literally 100 percent "we couldnt", but... the word can still work there.

What's there to work out? It's not like no-one had ever made a 3D open-world game before, and it's not like they'd never made an open-world Zelda game before.

The Wii had pretty much fizzled out prior to Skyward Sword's release thanks to that nine-month drought that started 2011. Why they never tried filling that gap with games like Xenoblade then, I will never know, but there's part of why sales cratered post-2010 aside from Zelda and Kirby. Don't want to bother interjecting myself in this back and forth anymore, so...

Kirby and the Rainbow Curse was my favorite game of the show. I loved Canvas Curse on the DS, and I was wondering when they'd try some more stylus-based games with that Gamepad since it was practically screaming for it.

Captain Toad: Treasure Tracker is taking a nice side-game from 3D World into its own thing. I had heard people saying they'd pick a game like this up if Nintendo made it. I just hope it's priced reasonably is all.

Splatoon is an interesting take on an oversaturated genre. Why not? I guess the main thing I think they did right with this conference is that they didn't go overboard hyping one game (The dreaded Nintendo Land showing of 2012) and focused on a solid lineup. Trickling down info as the show's been going on has kept them in the spotlight after some okay but unspectacular showings by Sony and MS, too.