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Touhou Danmaku Hell - Success and Failure Stories

bullets, bombs, and girls, what more do you want? its touhou!
gamercal
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Re: Touhou Danmaku Hell - Success and Failure Stories

Post by gamercal »

I wouldn't fret too much, I do that literally all the time with various cards I know I should capture (examples being midboss Nazrin, Aya's last card, pretty much all of IN Reimu). It's always frustrating, but with it being so early into a run it's not so bad.

Naturally it's not a good development as you said, I guess I'm just trying to say it's not the end of the world. Keep at it!
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RobinLSL
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Re: Touhou Danmaku Hell - Success and Failure Stories

Post by RobinLSL »

You will never be at your limit. There's always room for progress! For example, I'm finally good at MoF stage 5. Though I cannot for the love of God beat Night with Overly Bright Guest Stars and it annoys me SO MUCH! Moses' miracle is also a real pain for me. But those are the only 2 real obstacles left in stage 5.
gamercal
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Re: Touhou Danmaku Hell - Success and Failure Stories

Post by gamercal »

*reaches Shou with 7 lives and 1 bomb*

*dies 3 times within the first two attacks*

.... how... on so many levels how...

First off how the fuck did I manage to reach Shou with 7 lives. Like seriously, jeez. I guess I focused quite a lot on red UFO's throughout stages 3 and 4 (at the cost of bombs it seems - I reached Murasa with no bombs left... not a good sign, I blame Reimu's TERRIBLE collect box missing all the green UFO's at the end), but even at that that is still a lot to have in any run!

Then... just what the hell. I hate it when I have these sorts of spells - like I'm doing really really well for so long and then I just go completely blank and forget how to dodge it seems. Granted the first death was cause a red laser in the non-spell turned SUPER FAST and screwed everything up but STILL. COME ON MAN. You could fucking bombspam the entire rest of the game from there and win... I didn't even save the replay of that one because I was just ragequit so badly it's not even funny :/

That tears it, I am fucking beating this game and that is that. No questions asked, it is GOING to fall no matter what it takes.

"Beat" should be the figurative word though - it's not going to be a pretty clear by anyone's standards. I've still yet to play beyond Makai Butterfly in Byakuren's fight, so all of that is going to be figuratively blind. The last two cards are going to destroy me, I'm really scared for that actually.

I'm still VERY inconsistent as always though, missing several times at the same points. Not because my strategies are really WRONG persay, but because I'm stupid and I can't execute them 100%. Good examples being the end of Stage 1, the first UFO summon in Stage 2, various points in Stage 4 and numerous boss attacks from everyone except Nazrin.

My two biggest annoyances with regards to consistency is that Reimu B finds it nearly impossible to destroy UFO's with lots of enemies around, and that she is REALLY weak against bosses. Shit takes way longer than I would like to kill, and that causes several problems that wouldn't exist if I could use Reimu A instead. The thing is Reimu A doesn't solve the first problem, and she generates her own problem in that like MoF and SA stages become ridiculously hard due to her minimal attack range. I can get away with it in PCB with Marisa A (and to a lesser extent EoSD) because the stages in those games were a lot easier. Now though it's pretty much essential for me to have SOME range to my attacks because otherwise everything is just far too hard for me to comfortably be able to cope. Or maybe I'm just weird, that is a possibility.

Actually, might be a good idea to do a bit of a boss breakdown whilst I'm at it. Nazrin is really easy, the hardest attack is her first non-spell. Yes her second spell is easy, it's just pure memorization and even with Reimu B I've played it so many times now that I just know it. Kogasa... I think Robin said before that she is way too hard and I completely agree. Theoretical best is 1 mistake (Parasol Star Memories...), actual best is 2. I get so frightened when dodging the second non-spell since it's super-easy to mess up, but usually in runs I actually continue I tend to bomb all the spells at worst and that is it. Ichrin is an achilles heel of sorts - I could theoretically perfect the fight if King Kraken Strike treats me ok but usually I panic-bomb like everything. I cannot for the life of me do the second spell with Reimu, I have no idea why. I just struggle so much to find the gap I want during the second half of the second/third wave (the quick half). If I'm playing well though I will reach her with 4 or so bombs, which easily suffices if I am not a coward constantly.

Murasa is really hit and miss - I think I've gotten over my issues with the first non-spell, but every attack after the first two is an ordeal. Which sucks because I KNOW I can do them (sans the last non-spell), just either I'm too inconsistent or I'm too unlucky, I haven't worked out which yet. Probably inconsistent with regards to the last two cards, since the survival card is mostly manipulation and the third card I understand, I just don't always find the right lanes to stick in. I've had cases where a green circle has cockblocked me though, that's just annoying :/

Shou is Shou, I've played her about 3 times seriously (2 after continues, they didn't last long) and that is it. I ALMOST captured Radiant Treasure Gun on my 4th overall attempt, getting clipped with less than a second of HP left. Aura of Justice shouldn't be that hard but I suck and am not used to arrow walls blocking my way so I haven't yet captured it (again, almost). I captured the third card on my first go though, but that was with 3 power so that gives an indication as to how well I need to be playing for it. And the last... played once, bombed like twice and probably died, so yeah. There's so many more streams... I dodged a couple of waves though, it's just Reimu B takes forever to kill it since she's pretty weak :/

And Byakuren I can't say much for atm. I need to relearn Makai Butterfly since it is once again faster than I am used to (same pattern though), and that second non-spell can burn in hell. I've always had issues with it on Hard because sometimes the lasers aren't exactly aimed for where you are at the time, they're aimed slightly ahead. And with their insta-spawning hitbox this basically means I get killed even when moving correctly because the laser decided it would spawn in front of my current path. Times that by a million on Lunatic because she sends out two extra pairs of lasers.


I still think this game is technically beyond me. Maybe not ACTUALLY beyond me since I KNOW now that if I make it back to Shou with that level of resources then I can win overall. But the actual difficulty of the thing is far beyond what I can comfortably say I could do well at... this will be bottom of the barrel type of clearing, that's for sure.
darn
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Re: Touhou Danmaku Hell - Success and Failure Stories

Post by darn »

YEAHHHHH

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(so basically I decided to play Perfect Cherry Blossom on Normal and I ended up not dying. It was pretty cool.)
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RobinLSL
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Re: Touhou Danmaku Hell - Success and Failure Stories

Post by RobinLSL »

That is cool. And also a sign that you need to move up in difficulties!
gamercal
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Re: Touhou Danmaku Hell - Success and Failure Stories

Post by gamercal »

OK maybe I was wrong, I can't do UFO Lunatic. Specifically Stage 5. It's so so terrible... almost the entire thing is just pure luck! The entire stage is built on a combination of random-direction glowy bullets and arrows in ridiculous formations that very quickly become undodgeable if you aren't RIGHT on top of the faeries when they spawn. Maybe it is the weakness of Reimu B coming back to bite me, but this whole stage is physically not possible. I've thrown the word bullshit around a lot when it comes to UFO, but this stage is quite literally the definition of bullshit...

The initial double fairy attack isn't really too bad so long as you're paying attention and kill one before it fires the second wave, then you can do the same thing every time and it's fine. The stuff right after that is... occasionally possible, but usually is a luckfest because you have to be at exact spots to kill the sunflowers before they rain arrow death at you, and the random glowy bullets often make this nearly impossible. For Reimu B the three faeries right after that are also almost impossible for me, I can't kill the first one fast enough to dash over to the other side before it starts shooting, so it becomes a case of getting into a ridiculously specific unfocused resting spot that is nigh-on impossible to replicate, and even then you gotta do it again for the middle fairy if you succeed. From there until Nazrin it's typically ok, with the obvious bomb during the last part because it may as well be undodgeable thanks to the ridiculous spread of the ying-yangs. Nazrin's non-spell is typically easy enough, and the spell is bullshit but I usually survive JUST long enough to bomb at the right spot and get the most out of it.

The faeries that come right after that are total bullshit, virtually impossible to dodge any wave of that part without bombing. I know half the idea is to get UFO's from it, but seriously it's just ridiculous... the glowy bullet hell that comes right after it is even more ridiculous though, literally impossible without more luck than any mortal can wield. I guess maybe the idea is to stick to one edge, but I remember trying to do this on lower difficulties and I kept getting bodied by the faeries from the other side then...

And to top it all off thanks to the wider spread the ying-yangs at the end are also literally impossible to dodge. I've never seen anyone actually make it through without an exceptionally timed UFO explosion, which itself is stupid hard to try and do.

And let's not even talk about Shou... all of her attacks sans Aura of Justice are just impossible, and the worst of it is that they always sneakily kill you too so it's extremely tricky to deathbomb them. I can typically deal with curved lasers... but hers are way too long, way too fast, and just brutally unfair... I always without fail get walled and I'm not inherently doing anything WRONG either, it's just my luck.

I used to think SA Lunatic was complete shit but at least that is LEARNABLE, because it isn't all RANDOM SHIT WITH STUPID HITBOXES. In the end the only parts of that which in a best run would give trouble would be Orin's midboss spell and the crazy streaming section in the second half (lolReimuA). That's 2 or 3 bombs at an absolute best, usually give it one more because of Cat Walk. Whereas THIS... this isn't learnable, it isn't nearly as possible, and even with UFO clearing the whole thing can't reasonably be done in less than about 6 or 7 bombs. Thinking bests here, 1 just before Nazrin, one during Nazrin, usually 2 for the sunflower faeries right after her, at least 2 for the glowy spam, and one for the end. For a LUNATIC run, you just don't HAVE that level of resource... so what the hell?

And even with all that, Shou herself can very reasonably take up that many mistakes again just by herself. So essentially this is a minimum of about 12-15 mistakes during a SINGLE stage. That's unacceptable by any standard, but it's ALMOST FORCED because everything is just so ridiculously hard to do.

UFO Practice mode is also totally useless. No UFO's in inventory (so you can't practice your ideal UFO patterns, or even any reasonable ones since you'll never not end a stage with a UFO or two), but that could be worked around... if not for also starting with just TWO power. I have NEVER ended ANY stage with just 2 power (worst in a run I actually go through with has been about 2.80, and that was because I got to Murasa with no bombs in stock). This means that not only do you have to make up an unrealistic UFO pattern, you also have to desperately scrap for power to attempt to make up for lost ground. Which... is just not possible for most Lunatic stages. It is NOT fun trying to go through this stage with 2 starting power and no UFO's - not being able to get to 4 power before the three sunflower faeries just makes it even less possible to do, assuming you even get that far. There is just no enjoyment to be had out of this stage... as compelling as the music is... gah...

The worst part of all this is that even AFTER getting through Stage 5 I know Byakuren is going to murderlise me so badly it isn't even funny. But I can never reach her because of the impassable roadblock in front of her...
gamercal
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Re: Touhou Danmaku Hell - Success and Failure Stories

Post by gamercal »

Double post because yeah, I gotta ask something.

Robin, do you think that there is any chance of you being able to give me a UFO save with stage 6 Lunatic open to practice with Reimu A? I got to Byakuren's last spell with default resources but I just completely froze after bombing when the all-red phase started up because I have NO idea how to tackle it, but I cannot for the life of me clear Stage 6 starting with default resources (tried for over an hour on stream last night, it just wasn't happening). But because UFO demands that you clear a stage before being allowed to practice it, I have literally no way to do so. So no matter what I do for the rest of the game, I won't be able to clear it unless I can somehow learn the card. It's a vicious loop and there's literally no way out of it without outside intervention... so yeah, would you kindly assist me?
gamercal
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Re: Touhou Danmaku Hell - Success and Failure Stories

Post by gamercal »

Excellent! I reckon I just had a complete freeze because it was literally my second time of playing the card (the first of getting anywhere - I clipped an amulet in the blue phase on my first run :/), AND it's been forever since I even played Hard's version so I literally froze. I made it to the fight though with 5 lives and 3 bombs - I KNOW that if I can practice the last card that I can do this now.

My trend seems to be playing better on stream than off it though - even though I inevitably failed I had some rather inspired dodges throughout the night. When I play at my best I really do play great... just I have this horrible tendency to switch off irrationally. Case in point - last night I got clipped during Ichirin's first non-spell, then proceed to perfect the fight from there. Including King Kraken Strike. It's just silly.

I never once failed Pendulum Guard all night though, and I think I probably played it about 25 times. Really happy with that one.

I need to work in another red UFO somewhere in my game though. I keep ending Stage 5 with 2/3 life pieces, which isn't at all ideal. I've figured that, since it's impossible to collect the last UFO pieces at the end of Stage 2 with Reimu A as green, I can summon a red at the end there to gain one more life piece. That single piece lets me complete a "half", so long as I collect 2 from every UFO I summon otherwise. I think I just need to lay down one more bomb in Stage 4, with the green needle streaming section. There's lots of reds in that area from the ying-yangs going across the screen, but I rarely kill many because I have a green UFO summoned at the time and it gets in the way. Though I CAN get through without bombing, Reimu isn't good at simultaneously killing UFO's and enemies, so an auto-bomb is probably not a bad option.
Punisher
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Re: Touhou Danmaku Hell - Success and Failure Stories

Post by Punisher »

Bluh. I THINK I have the hang of Wizard Fox Thoughts, now, but I'm in the same predicament as many people, in the form of Charming Siege and Princess Tenko. I can clearly see the difference between Charming Siege and Xanadu of Straight and Curve, where Ran sways the needles, whilst Yukari just makes them turn at varying distances. If that damn fox wasn't so quick, I would be able to consistently reach at least Kokkuri-san's Contract...
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freelop
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Re: Touhou Danmaku Hell - Success and Failure Stories

Post by freelop »

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I decided to give this a go again yesterday and beat it today.
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Punisher
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Re: Touhou Danmaku Hell - Success and Failure Stories

Post by Punisher »

Ohey, I finally 1cced Youyoumu on normal! Funny how that works out, doing everything backwards. Whatever, I'll have a video up, provided Camtasia stops being a dick.
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Re: Touhou Danmaku Hell - Success and Failure Stories

Post by raekuul »

I, on the other hand, can't produce a video without borrowing someone's computer (as any sort of recording software on this computer slows Framerate-based games down to half speed at best, though I may still be able to record a PACD Team in Might and Magic 7... but that's offtopic), but I can share the replay file. But first, some backstory.

What I do to warmup when I play Perfect Cherry Blossom is I play Lunatic One Life on all characters and shot-types until I game over (In general, this ends either right before Letty if I get too greedy with the powerups, or during the first round with Chen), then I do Normal One Life on SakuyaA until I game over. This particular replay is "The Trainwreck of Bucuresti" - I was actually doing very well on my Normal Warmup, having managed to... well, I'll let the title and the replay file speak for itself.

For those who don't know how to do this, extract the replay file to your game's Replay folder.

What's frustrating is that I can capture Eerily Luminous Shanghai Dolls but not the technically easier Foggy London Dolls.
Games Beaten In 2020, 2021, 2022, 2023, 2024
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gamercal
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Re: Touhou Danmaku Hell - Success and Failure Stories

Post by gamercal »

Ohhhhh yes yes fuck yes FINALLY.

FINALLY getting somewhere with Touhou again.

OK, slight backstory here - I got a gaming desktop in January. But I have exclusively played Touhou on my laptop ever since I got into it. my desktop's screen is a 1600x1200 square, compared to the 1366x768 laptop screen. And my keyboard sucks, I hate it so much... laptop-styled slim keyboards are so much better it's ridiculous.

Not the point. The point is I have been having immense trouble adapting to this new system, it's unbelievable. There was once a time where I was able to do no focus runs of the Extra's, along with competing at Lunatic level, but I struggle to even CLEAR the Extra's at the moment on my desktop. Maybe part of it is lack of practice, but I feel really out of control with my keyboard and the speed difference (particularly vertical) is massive. I don't know if anyone else has ever experienced this, but I always struggle to adapt to timing/precision games when switching screen dimensions/aspect ratios... and it has been a real dampener on my Touhou spirits.

Now to the present... last night I figured I'd give Yukari another run. Yukari is generally fairly easy for me, and a very fun fight. I used Marisa A, who used to be the only shot I ever used but has been replaced by Reimu B most of the time because no focus runs etc. I've COMPLETELY forgotten how Danmaku Bounded Field works (bombed waves 2, 3 AND 4... bombing wave 2 is bad :/), but otherwise I captured EVERYTHING else, and it was awesome :D

(Well, there was a technical miss of the 7th non-spell, I got hit upon leaving a border before the invincibility ran out, getting the border bonus and not dying)

I'll put the replay up later. A no-miss, 4 bomb (one on the stage for scoring) clear, capturing everything in the stage except DBF and scoring a total of 1.03 billion points. Which was incidentally my new high score too, how about that.

This is only the beginning of the recovery... but it's a significant step, and by god I'm going to take any and all victories I can in this road of adaptation. Hopefully I'll motivate myself enough to buy a higher-end keyboard that feels much closer to laptop-style ones, which should improve my sense of control. THEN we'll see how I can cope.
Punisher
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Re: Touhou Danmaku Hell - Success and Failure Stories

Post by Punisher »

I hate to say this, Cal, but get a controller. It's absolutely consistent, and you feel more in control. If I could wipe out that hag and her shikigami, AND 1cc the game with SakuyaA with a controller, you can, too. Trust me, it actually helps.
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gamercal
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Re: Touhou Danmaku Hell - Success and Failure Stories

Post by gamercal »

Believe me, I have tried controllers before with Touhou. It was what I originally used until the one I had broke from the strain :P. They do not work nearly as well as a GOOD keyboard (and by good I mean one that feels comfortable to use). As soon as I switched from controller to keyboard my clearing ability more than doubled. Actually, within two days of switching I beat Flandre for the first time; beforehand I couldn't even get past Four of a Kind.

Things would be different if I had a history with shooting games, but I don't so yeah.
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RobinLSL
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Re: Touhou Danmaku Hell - Success and Failure Stories

Post by RobinLSL »

CONTROLLERS SUCK!!!!!

Time to start the debate again? :p Well actually I'm pretty sure that I'd be way better at Cave Story with a controller rather than a keyboard, but Touhou is a whole other set of peanuts.

Cal I guess you should buy another keyboard!

And about that screen-adaptation thing... well it's surprising that it affects you that much. Also, you could experiment with your screen size/resolution. (but be sure to avoid all stretching).
I hardly got this kind of problem (I have a fun memory of playing Flandre with a projector on a huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge screen and I failed XD )
gamercal
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Re: Touhou Danmaku Hell - Success and Failure Stories

Post by gamercal »

I bought another really sexy keyboard and it's awesome - now I just gotta stop getting so unlucky with clipping in TD Lunatic again, haha.

I think the biggest thing that is bugging me with the screen thing is that this monitor is 4:3, whereas my laptop's is closer to 16:9 (though not exactly). WHICH MEANS that my desktop monitor has a lot more vertical pixels compared to my laptop, which makes the movement look different. I think I'm past the point where it is impacting me significantly, but it just took some getting used to. I still need to do better with micro-stuff though, things like Kogasa's second non-spell still trip me up nearly every time >_<
Punisher
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Re: Touhou Danmaku Hell - Success and Failure Stories

Post by Punisher »

RobinLSL wrote:CONTROLLERS SUCK!!!!!
"How tough am I? HOW TOUGH AM I? I 1cced Perfect Cherry Blossom, beat Ran, and beat Yukari, using a controller!"
"Ehh, that doesn't sound so tough."
"WITHOUT Vsync!"

Okay, moving on.
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Punisher
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Re: Touhou Danmaku Hell - Success and Failure Stories

Post by Punisher »

Okay! I'm going to wipe out Mokou, next. As of my first six attempts, without restarting, I can make it to Honest Man's Death numerous times, and occasionally Woo. If I can improve on the stage, I'll have a liver to eat in no time.
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Punisher
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Re: Touhou Danmaku Hell - Success and Failure Stories

Post by Punisher »

Triple posting!
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FUCK YOU, YOU WHITE-HAIRED, IMMORTAL BITCH!
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Saturn Moriya
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Re: Touhou Danmaku Hell - Success and Failure Stories

Post by Saturn Moriya »

So a while ago I could beat EoSD on hard without too much trouble. Now I have to take pills that affect my reaction speed, and I can't beat get past stage 4 on normal. Frustration!
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gamercal
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Re: Touhou Danmaku Hell - Success and Failure Stories

Post by gamercal »

Timing spells out in IN Spell Practice to try and build up skill again is fun. Well, mostly - half the time I was internally complaining at how much I was getting walled, haha.

Biggest culprit BY FAR was Game of Rising. Hoooooly shit I knew that card was annoying but timing THAT out was positively painful! As I started on Reimu's spells I was using Alice at first, but after 101 consecutive fails with the best I could do being halfway through the spell timer I decided to switch to Reimu. Another ~125 tries later and I managed it. But good god that card is horrible - it's very hard to see where you are, you have to be proactive to avoid basic walls from everything, and if/when Eirin moves down the wves get stupidly dense and it feels more like luck than skill.

Timing Reimu's last card was also fairly painful until I realised that it's easier to move up and down in the last 20 seconds rather than trying to weaves through arrow waves.Fader (her second spell) also feels a little luck-based, but only a little.

My biggest problem at the moment seems to be that I constantly move further than I expect for a given button press on my keyboard. I can't tell whether it feels too sensitive or not enough, since there are times where I think I lightly tap the arrow but I just don't move. It's a litle disorienting when the screen is big too, you know? But I am at least getting better, so there's that. Might try a main run of IN Lunatic again soon, it's mostly doable so I shouldn't be TOO bad at it if I just pay attention throughout the stage portions (specifically 3 and 4).

Oh, and Robin: if you're ever in need of something quickish to do when you're bored, try timing out Demon Binding Ring without shooting with Marisa please :P. Me and a friend are currently under the impression that this is impossible due to the fatal ying-yangs, but I dunno... I reckon you could pull it off. Best I've done is ~18 seconds, but I keep getting walled by the ying-yangs just appearing in the middle of the one arrow lane you can stay in to not die.
freelop
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Re: Touhou Danmaku Hell - Success and Failure Stories

Post by freelop »

agie777 wrote:So a while ago I could beat EoSD on hard without too much trouble. Now I have to take pills that affect my reaction speed, and I can't beat get past stage 4 on normal. Frustration!
Side effects may include drowsiness and reduced reaction time, do not operate heavy machinary or flying lolis whilst under the effects of the pills
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