(shouting)

Horikawa Plays Khimera: Destroy All Monster Girls

this is the place where lps are being talked about. it's important to talk about games being played on the internet.
User avatar
kitikami
Posts: 853
Joined: 10 years ago

Re: Horikawa Let's Plays Momodora: Reverie Under the Moonlight

Post by kitikami »

The poison accessory seems like something that's more useful against bosses than in stages, given that the stage enemies have relatively low health and you can poison yourself.

It would be nice to see the friendship bracelet attack used on a boss so the health bar gives an indication of how much damage it actually does, but it really does look impressive. Maybe a run where Horikawa's already been hit by a boss and would have to redo the fight anyway would be a good opportunity to try it.
User avatar
Willhart
Stalker, Doxxer, and Sexual Harasser
Banned
Posts: 2434
Joined: 13 years ago
Location: Finland

Re: Horikawa Let's Plays Momodora: Reverie Under the Moonlight

Post by Willhart »

The nice thing about poison is that it also works when the boss is away. I remember some of them were immune for arrows though, but I believe they still get poisoned if they stand in the cloud for long enough. Also instead of a mimick, that one box had a dog inside instead. You can see it shake if you look carefully, and it's fairly easy to either smack or roll around to get past. That area was also really difficult on insane/pacifist mode, since you would have to guide the dogs away from the direct path, while being shot at from above.
User avatar
Telamon
TO PROTECT PENGUIN MACHINE MERGED THE TRAINING MAN.
Posts: 1114
Joined: 12 years ago
Location: Repping the 703

Re: Horikawa Let's Plays Momodora: Reverie Under the Moonlight

Post by Telamon »

Can confirm Maryland's fondness for science camp, as I attended the 'Center for Math, Science and Technology' at UMES in High School. Although I took a math class rather than anything environment, I know part of the camp spent their days stamping around in a marsh somewhere.
Image
User avatar
kitikami
Posts: 853
Joined: 10 years ago

Re: Horikawa Let's Plays Momodora: Reverie Under the Moonlight

Post by kitikami »

Momodora 4 is really starting to shine. It looks like this is the game that fulfills the potential the series has had up to now.

Pardonner Fennel is a neat boss, although it is too bad you don't really seem to have any reason to fight her. That one mage enemy kind of reminds me of something Horikawa would use as an avatar.
User avatar
Willhart
Stalker, Doxxer, and Sexual Harasser
Banned
Posts: 2434
Joined: 13 years ago
Location: Finland

Re: Horikawa Let's Plays Momodora: Reverie Under the Moonlight

Post by Willhart »

kitikami wrote:Momodora 4 is really starting to shine. It looks like this is the game that fulfills the potential the series has had up to now.

Pardonner Fennel is a neat boss, although it is too bad you don't really seem to have any reason to fight her. That one mage enemy kind of reminds me of something Horikawa would use as an avatar.
There is a reason to fight her actually, but we might not see that in a long time.
User avatar
Telamon
TO PROTECT PENGUIN MACHINE MERGED THE TRAINING MAN.
Posts: 1114
Joined: 12 years ago
Location: Repping the 703

Re: Horikawa Let's Plays Momodora: Reverie Under the Moonlight

Post by Telamon »

I love how the boss's health bar starts not-quite full due to off-screen fighting. Great little touch.
Image
User avatar
Willhart
Stalker, Doxxer, and Sexual Harasser
Banned
Posts: 2434
Joined: 13 years ago
Location: Finland

Re: Horikawa Let's Plays Momodora: Reverie Under the Moonlight

Post by Willhart »

They do look great, though I also like the stationary ones a lot too. I wonder if they could be combined somehow, like having the animation happen only when they are hovered over, and having the regular thumbnails there otherwise.
User avatar
Alice
Posts: 2367
Joined: 12 years ago
Pronouns: Girl person
Location: Wonderland

Re: Horikawa Let's Plays Momodora: Reverie Under the Moonlight

Post by Alice »

Horikawa Otane wrote:Feedback would be nice of course. May not work on Firefox, but... Eh. Firefox is for chumps.
My feedback is that it's crap. That image format is nonstandard and is basically only supported on Chrome. The only browser that supports webp other than Chrome (and new Opera since it runs the same engine) is one of the forks of Firefox, Pale Moon.
Image
Really not a good choice to use a format that half of your viewers aren't going to be able to even see.
User avatar
Alice
Posts: 2367
Joined: 12 years ago
Pronouns: Girl person
Location: Wonderland

Re: Horikawa Let's Plays Momodora: Reverie Under the Moonlight

Post by Alice »

Horikawa Otane wrote:Additionally, my front page was just text before - so no content is lost from before for those users who still use regular Firefox. It's strictly a bonus feature for those who run a browser that supports more modern image formats.
There's little reason to exclude those other viewers though. And above all else there's no reason to shit on said viewers simply because they use a different web browser than you.
Beyond that, if you read the many Firefox bug reports where people request webp support (or even supply working patches!), the ACTUAL explanations as to why they don't include it are "it's something Google made" and "chrome doesn't support apng or mng and we do!" (Though mng has been dropped since, I believe - people have been requesting webp for awhile now!)

Yes, it's made by Google, but it's also open source and extremely easy to implement (no legal issues with the license either - it uses the same highly permissive license as webm, which Firefox supports already). And yes, chrome doesn't support apng natively (it does with an extension), but webp is a strictly better format in terms of compression and barely anyone uses apng, so it's not really necessary. I cannot legitimately support that tribalistic line of "Google has cooties!" thinking in terms of coding. It just hurts the users because webp is far and away the best full chroma multi-frame image solution. And I did TONS of stress tests with apng, gif, AND even mng.
Webp is not strictly better. It has its issues as well such as the fact it uses a video compression algorithm that negatively impacts quality, specifically the red channel. And Chrome no longer supports apng with an extension. Awhile back one of their updates broke that support and they won't fix it.

Edit: I spaced addressing one advantage apng has over webps. Apng is png based and thus lossless. Webp is an intrinsically lossy format. That said I think both formats actually have issues. Apng has issues with the format itself that don't clearly differentiate frames in its structure from what I recall (or something along those lines, I forget the exact details anymore) which makes it a pain for any editor to add any actual support for the format.
For all the reasons above. I refuse to use highly unoptimized, 256-colour, probably 5-10fps gifs at the same filesize. I'd maintain backwards compatibility if I could, but I'm not willing to let my content suffer (particularly strictly bonus content) for browsers kept back by tribalistic coding (Firefox) or just plain stupidity (Edge). Imagine where we'd be if web devs in the browser wars designed pages to be fully compatible with IE. We'd still have the marquee tag! And some JavaScript arrays would populate inconsistently! Likewise, I refuse to support an ancient and terrible format like gif in order to maintain backwards compatibility - I'm making a conscious decision to increase webp market saturation.
Gifs are garbage, that's true. The best method if the site had tags would be to just use webms since all common browsers support them rather than a format that a significant amount of people cannot view.
I'm going with the strictly best option for my (bonus) content and the format that is showing the clearest signs of being the King after all of this full chroma animation war is over.
You keep complaining about the tribal views of web devs yet you are doing literally the exact same thing here. You call people who use a browser other than yours chumps then act as if your browser is objectively the best when that's not a clearly defined case. The difference in this argument is that I do not care in the least bit that you use Chrome and prefer it while you are actively insulting me for using Firefox. How are you not contributing to the problem that you're complaining about?
User avatar
Alice
Posts: 2367
Joined: 12 years ago
Pronouns: Girl person
Location: Wonderland

Re: Horikawa Let's Plays Momodora: Reverie Under the Moonlight

Post by Alice »

Horikawa Otane wrote:This is strictly incorrect. Webp supports both lossless AND lossy formats. It is not intrinsically either, whereas apng IS intrinsically lossless.
This must have changed at some point then. It has been like 6-8 months or so since the last time I've really looked into webp but the last I did check everything I saw on it said it was lossy only.
When I was stress testing this, I did look at the difference between lossless webp and apng in filesize. The difference was ALWAYS substantial. In that, it IS strictly better.

But more importantly, the near-identical-quality lossy filesize was something around the order of 3mb (webp)->35mb (apng) for one of the images on the front page. That's insane - and common. 90% differences are not remotely uncommon in apng vs animated webp comparisons.
Oh yes, that'd definitely be a good reason and not something I'd disagree with either. Large apngs don't seem to be as laggy as large gifs at least but it's still a lot of bandwidth either way. I don't think either format is really intended for large or lengthy images.
Additionally, I cannot find anything beyond an errant, and fixed, android chrome rendering bug from 2012 that suggests anything bad about the red channel specifically in lossy webp. Not saying it doesn't happen - but I haven't seen anyone mention it personally and I've never witnessed it.
You're probably having trouble finding info on that since it's a extremely common thing for video codecs to do. I can't remember the term off the top of my head but most video codecs will actually store less data for the red channel compared to blue and green in order to cut down on filesize. But in the process this means reds lose quality much more quickly.
You are correct that the extension doesn't work - I apologize for that. However, it is fixable - entirely in the extension JavaScript. No patches to Chrome are necessary. I might go ahead and fix it myself just because the fix isn't difficult.
Really? I'm actually a bit surprised it hasn't already been fixed yet then. And I was actually just reading up last night but apparently it's possible for an addon (or maybe userscript, though I'm not certain there) to convert webps to webms for a Firefox user (or other browser that doesn't support webp) but none exists. If I knew more about it and making addons I'd give it a try myself but unfortunately I don't.
But if we implemented autoplay, endless looping, and muted the audio (obviously), if someone decides to embed a youtube video (where webm is most commonly used, remember), then people on data plans on their phones would suddenly get a lot of their data eaten just by browsing the forum. A single page could, theoretically, eat up 1gb of data. So that's not doable either.
I'm not sure what code it would require off the top of my head but it would definitely be possible to implement tags that only autoplay on desktop browsers.
I didn't call them chumps, nor did I EVER insult you, nor did I ever call Chrome the objectively best browser. I'd like to see those quotes, personally. Please - supply them. I'm genuinely curious. (I'm actually kind of legitimately offended that you're putting such nasty words in my mouth if we're being entirely honest here. I'm not that awful of a person!)
Image
You called Firefox users chumps in the first post I responded to. (Really that was the major point I took offense to in all this to be clear. I do think using webp when commonly used browsers don't support it is a bad idea but that is still your choice.) You also claimed Chrome is "king" for supporting webp.
I said that Chrome was a browser that "supports more modern image formats" and that the programmers of Firefox, not the users mind you, keep the browser back due to "tribalistic coding" (I suppose this could be an insult for users who also contribute code for Firefox :P).
Fair enough then though I do at least partly disagree that webp is necessarily a more modern image format. The way it works is actually more like a video format, just with the ability to have one frame static images.
For the record, I think Firefox is fine? I don't care if you use it or not???? Heck, even Microsoft's Edge browser is pretty alright. If you use that, whatevs yo.
It really didn't come across that way at all with the way you worded things.
Like, I have serious issues with the staff and the programming, since a large portion of the ones that interface with the public are pompous assholes and ideological pricks, but I think that Firefox has incredible plugins that, due to the way they work, by definition cannot be done on Chrome. That's important and a major difference between the two browsers. I also think that having more rendering engines is a good thing - not everything should be WebKit, even if it's overall probably the most webdev friendly engine right now (speaking as someone with about a decade of professional webdev experience).
I'm sure they are, a lot of people on the public side of things like that end up seeming like total pricks. (I don't really keep an eye on that stuff so I'm not actually sure in Mozilla's case.) Have you seen some of the posts the creator of Linux makes when talking to some of the people who contribute code to the kernel? He comes across as a real asshole at times.

Also that comment about plugins is unfortunately a moot point. One of my biggest complaints about Firefox is that Mozzarella keeps trying to make it more and more like Chrome rather than emphasizing its unique points. One of those changes is going to be the addon engine. Since Google refuses to give addon coders more power Mozilla is going to basically completely gut Firefox's addon engine to make it compatible with what Chrome has so addon coders won't need to code two separate versions of addons. A great idea but the fact addons won't be able to do nearly as much is a really shitty concession to have to make in the process.
User avatar
Alice
Posts: 2367
Joined: 12 years ago
Pronouns: Girl person
Location: Wonderland

Re: Horikawa Let's Plays Momodora: Reverie Under the Moonlight

Post by Alice »

Horikawa Otane wrote:I didn't claim that Chrome was king. I said "I'm going with the strictly best option for my (bonus) content and the format that is showing the clearest signs of being the King after all of this full chroma animation war is over."

I said I would go with the "format" that was showing the clearest signs of becoming King after the full chroma animation war ended. Webp is a format, Chrome is a browser :P. And considering the movement towards webp (particularly from YouTube and Netflix) and the low market saturation of apng, I don't think betting on webp is a bad bet at all haha.
Fair enough then, I appear to have misunderstood that comment.
However, on the "chump" thing - fair is fair! I had even forgot I had even said that! I had not intended that to be taken seriously - I just said it as sort of a throwaway joke. Kind of a "I wish I could support this, but I have to come up with some bs excuse why it doesn't matter" line. I should have added a "jk" or something at the end - tone is hard to convey over the internet. Entirely my fault for not making my intentions clearer though. I apologize!
Ah, you definitely should have made that clearer then. It's one of those situations where the subject is a heated topic and plenty of people say stuff like that being completely serious so a joke along those lines can very easily come across way worse than intended.
This would be make genuinely sad if it happens. Firefox's ability to include C and C++ libraries in its extensions is an absolutely key feature of the browser imho. It's like ActiveX, but done in a sane way and it has led to some REALLY great stuff over the years. It has its downsides of course (some extensions only work in certain OS's), but the upsides are enormous. I still keep DownThemAll around, for example.
It'd be nice if Google would stop being stubborn about what their addons are allowed to do (so the good points about Firefox's addons wouldn't get lost in the migration) and maybe they and Mozilla could sit down and work on one setup that could work on both browsers (and which other browsers could adopt as well) as a nice middle ground. That's pretty a over-optimistic thought though unfortunately.

On the flip side though it means addons such as Magic Actions for Youtube won't be entirely dead on Firefox anymore since the new format means they'll be able to just copy the same code over for the Firefox version.
User avatar
Combat Lobster
Posts: 4
Joined: 8 years ago
Pronouns: she/her

Re: Horikawa Let's Plays Momodora: Reverie Under the Moonlight

Post by Combat Lobster »

The secret is within sight. You simply just have to hop down and grab it.

Image
User avatar
Willhart
Stalker, Doxxer, and Sexual Harasser
Banned
Posts: 2434
Joined: 13 years ago
Location: Finland

Re: Horikawa Let's Plays Momodora: Reverie Under the Moonlight

Post by Willhart »

I was pretty sure she would probably find it on collecthaton part later too. Does save a little time though. I'm also pretty sure there was one missing in cinder chambers. Should be 3 there in total.
User avatar
kitikami
Posts: 853
Joined: 10 years ago

Re: Horikawa Let's Plays Momodora: Reverie Under the Moonlight

Post by kitikami »

This game just keeps getting better. I have no idea what actually happened after the Lubella re-fight, but it was amazing.
User avatar
Telamon
TO PROTECT PENGUIN MACHINE MERGED THE TRAINING MAN.
Posts: 1114
Joined: 12 years ago
Location: Repping the 703

Re: Horikawa Let's Plays Momodora: Reverie Under the Moonlight

Post by Telamon »

My position on E3 is that I don't really care much simply because I don't care that much about triple-a games anymore. Even though I have a pc that will run anything that's not console-exclusive, nothing really tempts me. It doesn't help that the game I bought this graphics card in order to play, Just Cause 3, was a complete unplayable disaster. Anyway, on top of that, most of the games I play seem to be things I find out about from youtubers or streamers, so I don't even pay attention to conventions or expos or whatever.

Honestly, The Last Guardian is literally the first thing that's really tempted me to get a current-gen console in quite a while, though I also have serious reservations about it as well. My concern is that the sheer amount of time and money they've put into it at this point is likely to undermine the minimalistic approach which I feel is what makes their games so interesting. Of course it's way too early to say that for sure, but we shall see.
Image
User avatar
Telamon
TO PROTECT PENGUIN MACHINE MERGED THE TRAINING MAN.
Posts: 1114
Joined: 12 years ago
Location: Repping the 703

Re: Horikawa Let's Plays Momodora: Reverie Under the Moonlight

Post by Telamon »

Today's lesson: never be kind, cuz you'll either get beaten up or poisoned.
Image
User avatar
Combat Lobster
Posts: 4
Joined: 8 years ago
Pronouns: she/her

Re: Horikawa Let's Plays Momodora: Reverie Under the Moonlight

Post by Combat Lobster »

Fun fact about the bloodstained tissue, It used to home in on enemies but the homing wasn't that great so it changed to a fixed pattern. (And still manages to barely hit anything.)
User avatar
Willhart
Stalker, Doxxer, and Sexual Harasser
Banned
Posts: 2434
Joined: 13 years ago
Location: Finland

Re: Horikawa Let's Plays Momodora: Reverie Under the Moonlight

Post by Willhart »

You are still missing one Ivory bug on the Church-like place, and the one you heard near the end of the video. Other ones will be beyond the crest door. There are other collectibles too, but those are easy to find.
User avatar
ZephyrBurst
A Bird Cat
Posts: 358
Joined: 12 years ago
Pronouns: He
Location: Austin, TX

Re: Horikawa Let's Plays Momodora: Reverie Under the Moonlight

Post by ZephyrBurst »

I'm a fan of that boss fight, though where is that choir? :P
User avatar
Willhart
Stalker, Doxxer, and Sexual Harasser
Banned
Posts: 2434
Joined: 13 years ago
Location: Finland

Re: Horikawa Let's Plays Momodora: Reverie Under the Moonlight

Post by Willhart »

ZephyrBurst wrote:I'm a fan of that boss fight, though where is that choir? :P
It is in the name of the boss.
User avatar
Telamon
TO PROTECT PENGUIN MACHINE MERGED THE TRAINING MAN.
Posts: 1114
Joined: 12 years ago
Location: Repping the 703

Re: Horikawa Let's Plays Momodora: Reverie Under the Moonlight

Post by Telamon »

I feel like this bossfight deserved to have the Soldexus Abomination Stamp of Disapproval on the thumbnail.
Image
User avatar
Willhart
Stalker, Doxxer, and Sexual Harasser
Banned
Posts: 2434
Joined: 13 years ago
Location: Finland

Re: Horikawa Let's Plays Momodora: Reverie Under the Moonlight (Ep 10 out!)

Post by Willhart »

Bit sad to see this ending soon. The next game should be great too fortunately.
User avatar
Telamon
TO PROTECT PENGUIN MACHINE MERGED THE TRAINING MAN.
Posts: 1114
Joined: 12 years ago
Location: Repping the 703

Re: Horikawa Let's Plays Momodora: Reverie Under the Moonlight (Ep 10 out!)

Post by Telamon »

Nice variant of the classic upskirt during the final scene.
Image
User avatar
kitikami
Posts: 853
Joined: 10 years ago

Re: Horikawa Let's Plays Momodora: Reverie Under the Moonlight (Ep 10 out!)

Post by kitikami »

I'll miss Momodora. They were all really enjoyable LPs.

I'd probably rank them starting from favorite: 4,2,1,3. Three was still good, but felt a bit out of place with the rest of the series and didn't quite have the same kind of atmosphere to me. Maybe the somewhat broken items kept it from being showcased in the best light as well. One probably shouldn't rank ahead of any of the others, but I have a soft spot for Cave Story mods and this really has the feel of a good Cave Story mod. I also think it does a good job of what it sets out to do as a short, simple, self-contained experience with limited production resources. It probably helps that I probably wouldn't worry about 100% if I were playing it.

Two did a good job of expanding on the first game and giving it a more refined purpose and atmosphere, and gave the series a distinct setting and flavor. While three moved away from that a bit, four went back to it and built more on what two did while bringing the most polish to the series and fleshing things out even further. Four was also the one that kind of put everything together into a complete game more than just being a brief experience.
User avatar
Willhart
Stalker, Doxxer, and Sexual Harasser
Banned
Posts: 2434
Joined: 13 years ago
Location: Finland

Re: Horikawa Let's Plays Momodora: Reverie Under the Moonlight (Ep 10 out!)

Post by Willhart »

Here is the fan art thing I made for the ending. I did not see any drawings of the final boss yet, so that might be first. Also the colors were really fun to use. It almost felt like painting since they blend together so well.

Image


My favorite game was the third one in many ways. The colors and the atmosphere worked really well with the music, and I felt like there was some good variety in the enemy design. I remember having way more trouble with the bosses on my playtrough too, due to having heavier focus on the ranged attacks, and not using that particular item that gave a ton of DPS. Also the linearity made it very easy to pick up later, while collecting the achievements. I might be partial to this due to it being the first game I played too.

All of the games had some good gameplay. I'm definitely looking forward to the possible future games, and what they may bring.

Also I think the thread title could use an update. I tend to forget those too sometimes.
Post Reply