Mental Complex: An RPG-maker Horror Game

[Leet]

There's both a manga and a novel, but they are essentially just fan interpretations granted publication. The purpose of publishing them was to showcase different interpretations of the game, I heard. They're pretty neat, but recall if you read them that they aren't supposed to affect the game's canon or anything.

e: This post showed up at the top of the thread and now makes it look like this just turned into a Yume Nikki thread lol. I would put cool ideas about the game in this edit but i dont have time

[cats-on-ice]

There's going to be a princess?

*checks previous page*

That sounds a lot like Poniko, doesn't it?

I don't think so. She would actively probably try to gain the player's trust I think. More like Marry from IB

[cats-on-ice]

Okay I'm gonna set a few things in stone since we've got a couple basics.

Name: Dream Complex (not just apartment complex, but also as a psychological complex)

Protagonist: I'll make a poll for whether we want them to be male or female. Hell they can probably be androgynous if you guys think it could work.

Antagonist: Princess lolita like character (I'm thinking of naming her Alice). Her dream complex form is a monster of shadow. Dictator and creator of the complex. Lures the tenants in and keeps them against their will.

Who lives in the complex: We can decide on specifics once we get this set in stone. The tenants are lured in and kept against their will. They are kept in the building and unable to leave, because trying to exit causes them to loop around and enter the building again (American Horror Story style).

Why is the complex there: Alice's experimentation facility. For what purpose, I'm not sure of yet.

How does no one else know that the people are stuck there: It's possible that the existence of the building cannot be seen to anyone not seen as a fit test subject, though the fact that it's an experimentation facility is unknown until later in the story. By combination of money and supernatural power Alice created the facility and keeps it hidden.

How the player will enter the dreamscape: I think by looking in a mirror. This can be both forced and not. The first time they look in a mirror they're caught off guard and enter the dreamscape, a hellish world the reflects a certain person's psyche (how this is determined: whoever the protag is thinking about at the time, as long as they are inside the complex. If they think of someone who is not in the complex, they do not enter the dreamscape. The first time they do, they're thinking about a cute tenant they met their first day there. Maybe alice.)
As for forcing them to enter the dreamscape, maybe by forcing them to look in a mirror. Maybe alice sneaks up on them in the middle of the night, wakes them up and shoves a hand mirror in their face.

How the player will leave the dreamscape: To leave the dreamscape, the player must unseal the mirror that they went through. To do this they must acquire some sort of epiphany about the tenant who's dreamscape they're in.

Save points: probably just a bed. I mean it works.



That's about all I can think of at the moment for plot stones. If there's anything you don't agree with, have at it. Also vote on whether you want the protag to be a boy or girl or whatever. Keep in mind the characters sexuality (referring to thinking about a cute tenant when they first arrive) doesn't have to be dictated by their sex. What I'm saying is that we can have lesbians.

[dr_vblschrf]

Name: Dream Complex (not just apartment complex, but also as a psychological complex)

How the player will enter the dreamscape: I think by looking in a mirror.

How the player will leave the dreamscape: To leave the dreamscape, the player must unseal the mirror that they went through. To do this they must acquire some sort of epiphany about the tenant who's dreamscape they're in.

A few thoughts:

I kind of like "Mental Complex" over "Dream Complex" if only because I think it better captures the whole exploring-people's-psyches thing a little more clearly. But then again, if it's dreamscapes we're exploring, Dream Complex works better. Still kind of torn on this one.

As for the way to enter and exit the dreamscape, I think using a mirror every single time would take a little away from the horror aspect: the transporting object could be different for each person; if you don't know which thing will take you to the dreamscape that would preserve the element of being whisked away against one's will. Of course, it could just confuse: "Dangit, was Jingle McJangle's dreamscape key the swivel chair or the electric blanket?" Maybe a certain type of object (like say, furniture) instead of the same object each time?

Anyway that's my two cents. Overall I'm liking where the project's going so far!

[cats-on-ice]

Name: Dream Complex (not just apartment complex, but also as a psychological complex)

How the player will enter the dreamscape: I think by looking in a mirror.

How the player will leave the dreamscape: To leave the dreamscape, the player must unseal the mirror that they went through. To do this they must acquire some sort of epiphany about the tenant who's dreamscape they're in.

A few thoughts:

I kind of like "Mental Complex" over "Dream Complex" if only because I think it better captures the whole exploring-people's-psyches thing a little more clearly. But then again, if it's dreamscapes we're exploring, Dream Complex works better. Still kind of torn on this one.

As for the way to enter and exit the dreamscape, I think using a mirror every single time would take a little away from the horror aspect: the transporting object could be different for each person; if you don't know which thing will take you to the dreamscape that would preserve the element of being whisked away against one's will. Of course, it could just confuse: "Dangit, was Jingle McJangle's dreamscape key the swivel chair or the electric blanket?" Maybe a certain type of object (like say, furniture) instead of the same object each time?

Anyway that's my two cents. Overall I'm liking where the project's going so far!

We're totally gonna have a Mr Jingle McJangle character.
As for the transportation with different objects, this could work. Of course maybe something more sentimental than furniture maybe, like a music box or something. But that makes it kinda like "oh I wonder what their dreamgate will be. Oh they told us about that locket they got from their deceased granny. Found it."

Maybe we can introduce things like that kind of like a red herring, but that's hard to do so maybe not.

Iunno, I'm sticking with the mirror thing, but I'd like to hear other people's two sense on it.

[sedron]

Sharing my thoughts as usual!

Name: I agree with dr_vblschrf on using Mental Complex. While we want to let the player think the complex exists in dreams at first, it doesn't. Mental Complex also kind of has double meaning (complex referring to both the apartments and a psychology term.)

Protagonist: I voted for a girl, but I can see this going in any direction. It's more a matter of what I envisioned than anything. I think, all in all, their gender, sex and sexuality won't have a huge effect on how we write the character.

Antagonist: I like having the Princess as the villain, and I'm down with her Complex form being a shadowy monster. I do have to ask, why Alice as her name? I don't have anything against it, I just like names to be meaningful. While there are meanings behind the name that work, I believe the first thing people will associate the name with will be Alice in Wonderland and I don't know how appropriate a comparison that will end up being.

Why the Complex Exists: Alice making it makes the most sense to me. Why she made it I think could be different. I'm personally partial to the thing I wrote earlier (her father is in a coma, she made the world specifically to get inside his head and get information from him before he passes, everybody else is inconsequential.) I like that because it lets the other tenants go about business as usual (which is another thing I personally prefer,) and it incorporates both the idea of somebody with a degenerative brain disease raekuul mentioned and the idea of a mental world that falls apart as you traverse it.

I also had an idea for a tenant that's kind of dependent on him not being trapped there, as he's a workaholic to the point where he ignores huge, important facets of his life.

How You Enter and Leave the Complex: Entering is just something that happens, not necessarily with a specific trigger. Alice, having made the Mental Complex, can do so at will, but due to how the player gets the ability (which I don't really have an idea for as of now,) the jumps just happen. The first few times it happens while you're asleep, so when you wake up you're already there.

I don't know how dr_vblschrf's suggestion of having it be different for each person would work if the Mental Complex as a whole is kind of another overworld, since the item isn't meant to get to a specific psyche, but rather the other apartments. As for the mirror thing, it could work but I'm not really attached to the idea. Having Alice sneak up on you constantly to show you mirrors at inopportune moments seems odd, and it's very dependent on her motivation. Does she want the player to be there? In my mind, the answer is no, and the player is more of a spanner in the works than anything. However, it makes a bit more sense with the experimentation thing, which I'm unsure of for other reasons.

Save Points: Eh, as long as it makes sense I don't have really strong feelings on this. Beds, mirrors, notebooks, whatever.

[Sorel]

Eh, I kinda don't really like the idea of a lolita princess as an antagonist somehow, but it's not like I can come up with something better. Or that my opinion matters on that matter. (Heh.)

[cats-on-ice]

Ah you guys are right. Mental Complex does fit it better. Gonna rename the thread as that

Protag: I'll wait until the voting is done, which is 3 more days but I'll probably shorten that to 2

Antag: The reason I wanted to name her Alice IS a nod to alice in wonderland, how alice had the most power and had created wonderland essentially. Also it would be something different to have someone ELSE as alice, not the player. Having alice, a normally delicate protagonist, become a sociopathic and malicious antagonist is counter-intuitive and would create a small effect of powerlessness. How are you supposed to beat alice in wonderland, who CREATED wonderland?


Think you could elaborate more on the father in a coma thing? Or link me to the post? I may have missed it somehow.

Entering: I agree, that's a better idea. But what exactly triggers it? Is it just a random occurrence?

[Leet]

Yes lesbians please yes

[cats-on-ice]

Yes lesbians please yes

considering there are a majority of votes for a female protagonist your dreams just might come true

[KobaBeach]

i approve of the homoeroticism

[TheFinalSentinel]

Don't make me bring it up; the excite has only just died down within me. Dammit guys.

But yes, this is a fine course of action.

[sedron]

Eh, I kinda don't really like the idea of a lolita princess as an antagonist somehow, but it's not like I can come up with something better. Or that my opinion matters on that matter. (Heh.)

I think the "princess," part is more of an aesthetic thing than anything, for what that's worth. I do want to say that I'm keeping a really good eye on this thread though, and I'm taking all opinions into account. While I'm not going to suggest doing a 180 on some facet of the game because one person doesn't care for it, I absolutely want dissenting opinions. I want to see different viewpoints and, on a related note, flaws brought to light so we have all of the information we need to create something great. If you don't like the idea for the villain, you're free to suggest something else (though I think we're close to locking Alice in for the role,) and you're free to tell us why you don't like a given idea.

Antag: The reason I wanted to name her Alice IS a nod to alice in wonderland, how alice had the most power and had created wonderland essentially. Also it would be something different to have someone ELSE as alice, not the player. Having alice, a normally delicate protagonist, become a sociopathic and malicious antagonist is counter-intuitive and would create a small effect of powerlessness. How are you supposed to beat alice in wonderland, who CREATED wonderland?


Think you could elaborate more on the father in a coma thing? Or link me to the post? I may have missed it somehow.

Entering: I agree, that's a better idea. But what exactly triggers it? Is it just a random occurrence?

A) Did Alice create wonderland? I'll be honest, I don't remember anything like that, but then again I don't remember much of the story. Another concern I thought of was how common the reference to Alice in Wonderland already is, even in the genre we're aiming for. Just thinking about random horror-esque games on the internet, you've already mentioned Alice Mare a few times, and Irisu Syndrome has some similar stuff going on (Irisu=Alice, who also has a rabbit theme.)

B) Here you go! It's under spoilers in a fairly long post, so I imagine it was easy to miss.

C) We don't really need to decide on something to trigger the switch-over to the Mental Complex. It's okay to leave some mystery. It both opens up a lot of opportunities for us as writers and lets players later make their own theories.

[cats-on-ice]

sorry, for not being active. It's hard for me during the week

[sedron]

sorry, for not being active. It's hard for me during the week

It's all good, don't worry too much about it. It's not like anything's happened in the thread the past few days anyway. =P

I've been working every day since the snow storm too, so once I have another break from work I'll post some sort of update to our game plan.

[Sorel]

I kinda thought it would be a cool idea to include some sort of neutral character, like some sort of "invader" of the complex that you can find in different places and maybe (?) has influences for an alternative ending. What do you think?

[sedron]

I kinda thought it would be a cool idea to include some sort of neutral character, like some sort of "invader" of the complex that you can find in different places and maybe (?) has influences for an alternative ending. What do you think?

What do you mean by "invader?" Like, another party that's also entering the Mental Complex at will and screwing with things?

If it can be written into the story well, then I have absolutely no qualms with it. Off of the top of my head I have no ideas for such a character. If you could write a concept for this character that goes into more detail (motives, personality, how they affect the story,) we can see if it's workable.

[Sorel]

Sure, just give me some time to come up with a detailed concept that (hopefully) won't influence the overall "real" story too much. Y' know, like some kind of optional thing.

[Mikkofier]

Could it be the thing needed for the "UFO ending" or similar?

[Sorel]

I uh.... kinda forgot what the UFO ending is supposed to be. A joke ending?

[sedron]

Sure, just give me some time to come up with a detailed concept that (hopefully) won't influence the overall "real" story too much. Y' know, like some kind of optional thing.

You have plenty of time, don't worry.

I uh.... kinda forgot what the UFO ending is supposed to be. A joke ending?

Yup. The Silent Hill UFO endings boil down to "aliens were behind it all along." There's nothing otherwise in the series that points to this being the case, so it's always out of left field.

[swirlybomb]

I do want to say that I'm keeping a really good eye on this thread though, and I'm taking all opinions into account. While I'm not going to suggest doing a 180 on some facet of the game because one person doesn't care for it, I absolutely want dissenting opinions. I want to see different viewpoints and, on a related note, flaws brought to light so we have all of the information we need to create something great.

so with this in mind,

Yes lesbians please yes

i approve of the homoeroticism

Comments like these seem like "YES THIS IS MY FETISH PLEASE I WANT TO BE AROUSED WHILE PLAYING THIS PSYCHOLOGICAL HORROR GAME" (though perhaps only to me). I don't think romance or sexuality should just be thrown in for no reason unless there's an actual point to it and it benefits the story. Everyone's probably mad at me now?

I say this because I'm interested all up on the idea of this game and its psychological horror-ish theme (it is a mystery as to why I hate being frightened yet find horror strangely intriguing...), but having the player character fall in love with one of the tenants (in less than a week) (or something) just doesn't seem like it meshes with the rest of what's been said so far. Maybe I'm alone?????


also sorry if Leet or Koba get upset because I'm not trying to attack you

[Leet]

Yes lesbians please yes

Comments like these seem like "YES THIS IS MY FETISH PLEASE I WANT TO BE AROUSED WHILE PLAYING THIS PSYCHOLOGICAL HORROR GAME" (though perhaps only to me). I don't think romance or sexuality should just be thrown in for no reason unless there's an actual point to it and it benefits the story. Everyone's probably mad at me now?

I say this because I'm interested all up on the idea of this game and its psychological horror-ish theme (it is a mystery as to why I hate being frightened yet find horror strangely intriguing...), but having the player character fall in love with one of the tenants (in less than a week) (or something) just doesn't seem like it meshes with the rest of what's been said so far. Maybe I'm alone?????

also sorry if Leet or Koba get upset because I'm not trying to attack you

I'm not upset, but I do want you to know that I'm literally a lesbian and I want this because I want to see more lesbians in fiction/art/media.

I also want you to know that the inclusion of a character who can experience attraction, sexual or romantic, does not necessarily indicate a large focus of content of that nature, or any focus at all really. Case in point, the number of works that have nothing to do with romance or sex but feature firmly hetero protagonists for... no particular reason.

I also want you to know that there's nothing inherently sexual about including a character who is gay (again, see the number of straight characters in media aimed at children), so you're mentions of fetishism and arousal are firmly out of place. I personally am asexual.

[sedron]

Dissenting opinion.

I think Leet hit most of the points I wanted to make on the head.

The protagonist's sexuality isn't a huge concern for me, honestly. I'd like to leave it kind of ambiguous, maybe with some minor hints here and there. I've seen nothing to suggest that anybody thus far wants it to be the focus of the character, and I really doubt that there's going to be much reason to have it come up, story-wise. Leet and Koba wanting to see representation of a homosexual protagonist is totally reasonable, and I'm personally totally cool with having a lesbian protagonist, but that doesn't mean it's going to be a large part of the game. Being gay is often reduced to a personality trait (think of a cast of characters that could be reduced to "The Normal One," "The Wacky One," "The Athletic One," "The Gay One...") and it really shouldn't be. Their sexual orientation should be a part of their character, but far from what defines it.

So, don't worry too much about it. I promise this project won't mutate from a horror RPG thing into a dating simulator. Also, I'm definitely not mad at you for bringing up the topic, and it doesn't seem like Leet is either.

Quick aside, Koba is really open about the fact that he's a gay dude. I really doubt he seconded the idea of lesbians for sexual reasons. =P

On a related topic, I'd like to go over the gender thing while I'm writing in this thread. We had 1 vote for a male protagonist, 5 for female and 6 for androgynous. It's an extremely close vote, and to my knowledge nobody in the thread proper has actually voiced a preference for an androgynous protagonist. There was, obviously, support for a lesbian protagonist, which kind of implies that she's a girl.

I'd like anybody who wants to see an androgynous protagonist speak up a bit on it. Why do you want to see that, and how do you want to go about it (set gender but with diminished secondary sexual characteristics, actually having gender be non-binary, etc?)

I think making the protagonist a girl is the best option. We have people that are obviously interested in having that, and I'd prefer not to be bogged down too much in the details of an androgynous character. It's just simpler to use default pronouns and stuff. Having an androgynous protagonist also seems like the kind of thing that, by nature, will call attention to itself more frequently than their sexuality.

---

One last thing. Cats and I don't really expect much to happen here during MaglX2. I'd personally like to wait to enter real development until after the contest, just so people can put their mental resources towards one thing at a time. We'll still be having discussion here, of course, but actually making something probably won't start for a bit.

[KobaBeach]

i approve of the homoeroticism

Comments like these seem like "YES THIS IS MY FETISH PLEASE I WANT TO BE AROUSED WHILE PLAYING THIS PSYCHOLOGICAL HORROR GAME" (though perhaps only to me).

Quick aside, Koba is really open about the fact that he's a gay dude. I really doubt he seconded the idea of lesbians for sexual reasons. =P

this

plus i only posted that because i'm up for more lgbtqia+ representation

I promise this project won't mutate from a horror RPG thing into a dating simulator.

is it bad that the first thing that i thought of when i read this was that talkhaus vn from last year