MaGL X2 Relay Level (What is a level? A miserable little pile of...)

[Mystick]

I don't think I'll be able to make a screen in such a short time; I have to study a LOT.

What time is the deadline?

[Rednaxela]

Has a name been decided? Haven't checked the thread in a long time.

"You have only yourself to blame"

I forget who suggested it but if that's not the name then I'll be sad

I'll put up a poll shortly based on ones that have been suggested (If anyone has ideas, speak up), though thus far the favourite by a good margin has seemed to be what Ivy said yeah.

I don't think I'll be able to make a screen in such a short time; I have to study a LOT.

What time is the deadline?

Deadline is when the first episode of MaGL X2 goes live on raocow's channel. It sounds like tomorrow afternoon may be likely.
In any case, if you're busy don't worry about it. There are more important things in life.
Also if someone's in the middle of working on it when the deadline hits, I'll let them finish of course.

[Sorel]

Is someone doing a screen already? If not, I would like to do one really quick.

[Rednaxela]

Is someone doing a screen already? If not, I would like to do one really quick.

Don't think so, so go ahead

[Sorel]

*sigh* I can't find any working SMBX + Lua.

The official version takes me 3 whole hours to download even though it's just 160 MB... I don't know if I can make it.

[Rednaxela]

*sigh* I can't find any working SMBX + Lua.

The official version takes me 3 whole hours to download even though it's just 160 MB... I don't know if I can make it.

I think I might have a hunch of what's going wrong, and I should be able to upload something that I think has a good chance of working for you tonight.
Don't worry about the normal deadline. The deadline for your adding a screen I think is fair to extend to due technical difficulties.

[Rednaxela]

*sigh* I can't find any working SMBX + Lua.

The official version takes me 3 whole hours to download even though it's just 160 MB... I don't know if I can make it.

So, for certain technical reasons (one of which is that an update now means it detects if the OpenGL renderer can be used, rather than just crashing if it can't), I have a guess that one of these may work out for you (the later is the safest bet though larger download naturally):
LunaLUA_0.7.0.1plusGreen.zip (8MB, Just LunaLua/LunaDLL itself plus dependency DLLs)
LunaLUA_0.7.0.1plusGreen_smbx13_sfx_mus.zip (121MB, a full install, but with a vanilla smbx.exe, use LunaLoader.exe to run with Luna)
Hosted these on dropbox so they should download relatively fast.


Anyway, and with that, the deadline is passed, and so, your screen (if you're still up for it and this fixes it for you?) shall be the last before Horikawa's.

At some point tomorrow I'll put up the name poll

[Sorel]

Horikawa, it's all in your hands now.

https://www.mediafire.com/?3xs3xlt5hc4zbbs

BTW, thanks for hosting this thing, Rednaxela! Must have taken a lot of effort to make this project happen, but I'm glad you did!

[Rednaxela]

Nice stuff.

So, the name vote is officially up. The poll system in the forums allows up to 10 options and well... turns out I counted exactly 10 suggestions!
Just because, I've set it to "vote for up to two options" mode.

Some time soon (either tonight or tomorrow morning) I expect to post an update with some initial tentative midpoints, and possibly other minor fixes. After that we'll have a bit of time for final testing and such.

[Hoeloe]

Wow that's a tough vote. I love "Baby Got Serac", but it seems a bit spoilerific.

[Dragon Fogel]

So, have Lua midpoints been added in yet? I want to do a non-godmode test, but that's not really feasible until there are checkpoints.

[Rednaxela]

So, have Lua midpoints been added in yet? I want to do a non-godmode test, but that's not really feasible until there are checkpoints.

Doing that right this moment

[ohmato]

I'm quite satisfied with what the majority voted for.

[Rednaxela]

So, have Lua midpoints been added in yet? I want to do a non-godmode test, but that's not really feasible until there are checkpoints.

Doing that right this moment

So here's the update! MaGLX2Relay-58A.zip
Took longer than I expected.

So far I've just put midpoints at the start of each section, plus one right after Bees. Some feedback on that would be good. I've not had time to test with midpoints in place myself.
Also I've included some little tweaks for FrozenQuill's screen that they requested.

Some other potential midpoint places noted by SAJ were:

- Section 1, the screen when you change into Waluigi.
- Screen 5, either the screen with Deedeedee, the screen before it, or the screen where you transform into Peach
- Section 6, ? screen
- Section 7, Screen with Boo circle
- Last screen of Section 7 (right by the door). I'd say where you turn into Sheath, but I think that screen is hard enough that maybe have it at the end instead.

though for now I've left it at start of sections plus Bees. Even for a level like this I sort of feel like 9 midpoints (which is the current count) is quite a few?

I'm quite satisfied with what the majority voted for.

I'll leave the poll open till the final revision to this, but yeah, I think it's pretty likely decided

[Dragon Fogel]

Started testing, ran into a problem.

-RenaTurnip's screen: The block should probably disappear after you hit it, as hitting it again moves the mushrooms again and messes things up.
-DogInDaGrass' screen: For some reason the switch to Waluigi didn't work. This might be because I need to update things, or it might be because something got messed up while you were cleaning up events. Guess I'll update and see if it still happens.

[Rednaxela]

Started testing, ran into a problem.

-RenaTurnip's screen: The block should probably disappear after you hit it, as hitting it again moves the mushrooms again and messes things up.
-DogInDaGrass' screen: For some reason the switch to Waluigi didn't work. This might be because I need to update things, or it might be because something got messed up while you were cleaning up events. Guess I'll update and see if it still happens.

First problem: I'll make note of to fix that in the next batch of changes I make
Second problem: It's working for me currently so, I may be wrong but I think that probably won't happen with LunaLua >= 0.7

[Dragon Fogel]

Updated LunaLua and Waluigi Time is working again. It does still have a glitch where it clips you through the floor sometimes, not sure what can be done about that.

Anyways, I've made it to the second section legit thanks to the beginning power-ups, without getting hit even. However, I got noticeable lag there when I first reached it. Didn't seem to get the lag when I continued, though.

Tricky spots in the first section:

hardcore_crispy's screen: I haven't worked out how to dodge the shells, I've only been able to get past them unscathed with the help of power-ups. Maybe I just don't know how to do it.
QuietProtag's screen: Feels very tight timing on the Goombas. Still, I've managed to jump through safely and even keep a shell for the Parakoopas afterwards. Although, the Parakoopas feel kind of unfair if you don't bring a shell, or if you lose it to a Goomba.
Sniggerbobble's screen: I found it way too easy to slide off the platform when trying to grab a shell on the edge of it. This is the most annoying of these trouble spots, as it doesn't really feel like something you're supposed to be dying to.

First two, I guess it's less that they need to be toned down and more that I don't quite get the best way to do them. Third feels like a legitimate issue that would be nice to fix, though.

Midpoint thoughts so far: one at Waluigi Time would be nice but not really necessary. The spike wall escape isn't too hard with a little practice, especially if you can get up where the Rex is. Still, it kind of breaks immersion to go back to Mario.

Oh, also, there's no convenient power-ups if you restart from the second section midpoint. Which starts with Hammer Brothers and Snifits, both troublesome to deal with when you don't have extra hits. Maybe it would be good to have the level automatically start you as big... or does it already do something like that that if I test from the World file rather than the editor?

Anyways, I'll see if I can get past the bees.

Edit: Okay, so it turns out that if you start big there you run into Big Waluigi Discrimination when jumping to Garlyle's screen. This is something of an awkward beginning to the section.

[OrangeChickenPasta]

Edit: Okay, so it turns out that if you start big there you run into Big Waluigi Discrimination when jumping to Garlyle's screen. This is something of an awkward beginning to the section.

I agree that jump isn't fun at all, when i was creating my screen i tested the level a few times and i ended up adding blocks to make it easier.

[FrozenQuills]

Small bug with my screen I just found out:

sometimes hitting the timestop block while time is stopped will start time and then immediately stop it cause you're big and you hit the block again.

Easy fix: Find this code in my lua section:
if b ~= nil and b:collidesWith(player) == 5 and self.timecounter > 5 then
self.timecounter = x-5
end

And replace it with
if b ~= nil and b:collidesWith(player) == 5 and self.timecounter > 5 then
self.timecounter = x-10
end

if you can Rednaxela

Also it's probably just me but

I have no problems with QuietProtag's, hardcore_crispy's (easy to time jumps between shells), nor Sniggerbobble's screens (I grab the shell and jump if it's near the edge)

Finally the level takes forever to load but I assume it's because I'm not using OpenGL or something?

[Dragon Fogel]

I'm willing to agree that my main issue with the first two is more of that I just don't really know how to handle them, but my point on the third is that it feels really arbitrary when it happens. It does seem to just be a consequence of the mechanics, though, so if there's no tweak that can improve that then I guess we're stuck with it.

[Rednaxela]

Anyways, I've made it to the second section legit thanks to the beginning power-ups, without getting hit even. However, I got noticeable lag there when I first reached it. Didn't seem to get the lag when I continued, though.

Huh... do you mean it just paused for a little during the section transition? If so, that's a little bit of a known thing, and is the cost of a measure I've taken to improve the level's performance during gameplay, see below where I answer FrozenQuills about loading slow.

Small bug with my screen I just found out:

Makes sense, I'll apply the fix in the next update I make.

hardcore_crispy's screen: I haven't worked out how to dodge the shells, I've only been able to get past them unscathed with the help of power-ups. Maybe I just don't know how to do it.
QuietProtag's screen: Feels very tight timing on the Goombas. Still, I've managed to jump through safely and even keep a shell for the Parakoopas afterwards. Although, the Parakoopas feel kind of unfair if you don't bring a shell, or if you lose it to a Goomba.
Sniggerbobble's screen: I found it way too easy to slide off the platform when trying to grab a shell on the edge of it. This is the most annoying of these trouble spots, as it doesn't really feel like something you're supposed to be dying to.

First two, I guess it's less that they need to be toned down and more that I don't quite get the best way to do them. Third feels like a legitimate issue that would be nice to fix, though.

Also it's probably just me but

I have no problems with QuietProtag's, hardcore_crispy's (easy to time jumps between shells), nor Sniggerbobble's screens (I grab the shell and jump if it's near the edge)

Personally I would estimate I take a hit

about 15% of the time in QuietProtag's, about 98% of the time on hardcore_crispy's (I can tell there's a timing you can get, but I'm not good at that), and about 5% of the time on Sniggerbobble's

. Any other opinions on these from others?

Finally the level takes forever to load but I assume it's because I'm not using OpenGL or something?

Part of the load time is likely my Lua code that unloads NPCs that . It works by, at level load time reading the full data of all NPCs in the level for each section and storing it in a Lua-based data structure, then replacing the engine's NPC list with a list of NPCs only in the current section, and swaps out the lists each time you transition sections. It unfortunately increases load time (and section transition time), BUT it significantly improve's the level's performance during actual gameplay, more or less fixing some problems people had running the level on slower computers.

Edit: Okay, so it turns out that if you start big there you run into Big Waluigi Discrimination when jumping to Garlyle's screen. This is something of an awkward beginning to the section.

I agree that jump isn't fun at all, when i was creating my screen i tested the level a few times and i ended up adding blocks to make it easier.

I've personally found this jump nigh impossible when big if you just try to jump the simple way, BUT quite easy if you figure out that it helps to duck while making the jump. Also it's so early after a midpoint that I'm sort of not inclined to feel worried about that too much?

To play devil's advocate to myself though, I suppose messing that up during attempts to get back to Bees after dying on Bees could be rather annoying?

Ping

Thoughts? Would you prefer that jump to stay as it is, or maybe that cloud platform should be extended left a couple blocks?

[Dragon Fogel]

Huh... do you mean it just paused for a little during the section transition? If so, that's a little bit of a known thing, and is the cost of a measure I've taken to improve the level's performance during gameplay, see below where I answer FrozenQuills about loading slow.

I mean the whole section was lagging noticeably as I was playing it. Then when I died and continued, it wasn't. It wasn't unplayable or anything, but it was noticeable.

[Rednaxela]

I'm willing to agree that my main issue with the first two is more of that I just don't really know how to handle them, but my point on the third is that it feels really arbitrary when it happens. It does seem to just be a consequence of the mechanics, though, so if there's no tweak that can improve that then I guess we're stuck with it.

Only tweaks that come to mind here were if we added some sort of 'lip' to that moving platform? On the other hand, I feel like that removes the only challenge that screen has. I mean... other alternatives like reducing character momentum when near the edge of those ledges is also a thing that could be done but I don't think special-casing the game physics for one little bit of a screen is a good idea, haha. Alternatively I suppose... there are ways one could make it so shells wouldn't sit so far off the edge of the platform, to make it less tempting to try to move so close to the edge? I don't know that that makes much sense either though, for similar reasons of not messing with default mechanics for one little part.

I mean the whole section was lagging noticeably as I was playing it. Then when I died and continued, it wasn't. It wasn't unplayable or anything, but it was noticeable.

Ahh, odd. I'll run that section it with some instrumentation to measure how close it is to hitting the point slowdown on my machine some time. Don't know if a fix is possible but I'll keep an eye on that...

Hmm.... let's request views from screen creators:

Ping

Ping

Any thoughts from either of you about the generator rates on your respective screens? Some have expressed that as a point of particular difficulty, so you may wish to be aware of the feedback and decide whether or not you think it should be adjusted at all. Maybe give your own screens another brief play after it having been a while since making them?

I'll also add to the feedback, in some ways I almost feel like those two screens act as a sort of (weak) powerup filter? I say that because it seems much much easier to get hit by those sorts of horizontal generators when you're a taller character.

[Rednaxela]

Thanks! maybe an invisible NPC dialog could be used?

I think that would work fine.

e: Debating whether to switch the doors or to keep it as sort of an easter egg thing now though.

How about a "help" block above the

Wacow

door, that triggers some "Sorry,

Wacow

is not home right now" text? That would allow keeping the door position, but give the player a visually clear reason to check that door.

[Lunikyuu]

Thanks! maybe an invisible NPC dialog could be used?

I think that would work fine.

e: Debating whether to switch the doors or to keep it as sort of an easter egg thing now though.

How about a "help" block above the

Wacow

door, that triggers some "Sorry,

Wacow

is not home right now" text? That would allow keeping the door position, but give the player a visually clear reason to check that door.

Sounds like an even better idea!