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Superb Demo Sisters Enters Genesis

Doctor Shemp
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Re: Superb Demo Sisters Enters Genesis

Post by Doctor Shemp »

Ok, the thing about H8-5 makes sense. I agree with your idea of not making World 8 too hard now that I know it's intentional, although I think 7-1 could be toned down a little.

Setting up the leek events for A2XT is a pain and they sometimes didn't work for reasons that I never understood. It would be easier just to make it a room in the HUB that unlocks with 1 leek.

Hard Mode still needs to give a leek, as does Challenge World, because I'm assuming that we still have raocow unlocking at 1 leek, Sheath at 2 leeks and Kood at 3 leeks. I can't remember if that was the order or not but it makes the most sense to me: raocow is a straight upgrade to Demo as he has 3 hp max, Sheath is radically different, and Kood is a straight upgrade to everyone given his floaty jump.

The trailer would be the same basic thing as the A2XT one. Get Rog to say something, gameplay with music (probably the SDS overworld theme) and then close with title, talkhaus address & release date.

At this point if no-one has a good idea for Minus World we could just scrap it.
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Re: Superb Demo Sisters Enters Genesis

Post by Leet »

I think there should be at least something for Minus World. Like, anything's better than nothing.
Well it is a decent hack but sometime its just too repetitif there no level that actually pop in your face and your like oh yeah that level they all ressemble themselves and just monster along the way.
Blood Ghoul wrote:Sometimes it seems my blood spurts out in gobs, as if it were a fountain's pulsing sobs. I clearly hear it mutter as it goes yet cannot find the wound from which it flows. Before I met you, baby, I didn't know what I was missing.
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Re: Superb Demo Sisters Enters Genesis

Post by swirlybomb »

Doctor Shemp wrote:Hard Mode still needs to give a leek
It does, it's in H8-5 :v
And Challenge World's leek is already in 9-8, though I kinda want to say that a '9-9' should be present with an AMAZING!! message, similar to H8-5...? That's just me, though.

My only guess at a 'prize' for Minus World is another leek? Either as a bonus to your completion percentage if you get it last, or an early character unlock if you get it earlier. Or maybe something less tangible like a message or cheat codes or... I dunno.
anonymousbl00dlust wrote:All the obstacles in my level can be beaten on the players first attempt without any 'future predicting'.
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Doctor Shemp
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Re: Superb Demo Sisters Enters Genesis

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I was just mentioning the leeks in reference to you questioning the plot-related necessity of them. They're not necessary at all for the plot: they're necessary for the unlocks.

If we were to include a minus world, we could just make it function like a Doom secret level: you beat it then go to the next level as normal.

For example, if -1 was hidden in 2-3 (for example) then you could go 2-3 -> 2-4 (the normal way) or 2-3 -> -1 -> 2-4 (the minus world way).

Putting a leek in it would wreck the rewards system as we don't have another reward to get to, plus it would allow using Kood in Hard Mode or Challenge World, which would cheapen the difficulty considerably.
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Re: Superb Demo Sisters Enters Genesis

Post by Leet »

Yeah Minus World should be treated as a secret, not as another piece of progression content
Well it is a decent hack but sometime its just too repetitif there no level that actually pop in your face and your like oh yeah that level they all ressemble themselves and just monster along the way.
Blood Ghoul wrote:Sometimes it seems my blood spurts out in gobs, as if it were a fountain's pulsing sobs. I clearly hear it mutter as it goes yet cannot find the wound from which it flows. Before I met you, baby, I didn't know what I was missing.
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Re: Superb Demo Sisters Enters Genesis

Post by WestonSmith »

I'll gladly give a look over Worlds 7 and 8 and adjust difficulty if you'd like Swirls. I'll be giving the game a one over this weekend anyways.

On the subject of leeks, it could be as simple as this:

(1) In Normal Mode, we use Roulette, sending to the Credits. In the credits, the player would get a SMW leek, then be transported back to the HUB. Though I will say, a part of me would LOVE to try and make a super fancy credits sequence now that A2XT has raised the bar.

(2) In Hard Mode, we leave it as is (leek is in 8-5)

(3) Challenge Mode could have a fancy 9-9 with a leek, much like 8-5. If Swirls wants to make it, go for it. Otherwise I could make something work.

(4) Minus world would have no leeks. Just a neat easter egg. Though someone else might want to think of something before we default to my version.

Re: Commercial. The thought of making a Japanese ad crossed my mind. Of course, it wouldn't actually be Japanese, just me doing my most kinda-racist-but-not-racist Japanese impression. It would simply be dubbed over gameplay, ala the SMB1 Japanese ad. I should have everything I'd need to make one at my house as is. But a A2XT Rog ad would work fine as a proper advertisement.
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Re: Superb Demo Sisters Enters Genesis

Post by Leet »

Rog is the real hero of the ASMT series

(i hope my short one-sentence 'i agree/disagree' and/or joke posts arent annoying i just stalk the collabs a lot)
Well it is a decent hack but sometime its just too repetitif there no level that actually pop in your face and your like oh yeah that level they all ressemble themselves and just monster along the way.
Blood Ghoul wrote:Sometimes it seems my blood spurts out in gobs, as if it were a fountain's pulsing sobs. I clearly hear it mutter as it goes yet cannot find the wound from which it flows. Before I met you, baby, I didn't know what I was missing.
Doctor Shemp
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Re: Superb Demo Sisters Enters Genesis

Post by Doctor Shemp »

So, with all those changes and testing, how about October 27th as a release date?
WestonSmith wrote:just me doing my most kinda-racist-but-not-racist Japanese impression. It would simply be dubbed over gameplay, ala the SMB1 Japanese ad.
You know what they say: if you have to say it's not racist, it probably is. I mean it's doable without being particularly offensive, just very hard.
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Re: Superb Demo Sisters Enters Genesis

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If its not offensive, its probably not worth doing.
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Re: Superb Demo Sisters Enters Genesis

Post by swirlybomb »

Doctor Shemp wrote:I was just mentioning the leeks in reference to you questioning the plot-related necessity of them. They're not necessary at all for the plot: they're necessary for the unlocks.
I was referring to your mention of "there must be a leek in 8-4 so the story makes sense" [paraphrased], since the Demo Sisters 'already got their leek' in regular 8-4 (and thus that the 'plot' was already 'resolved'). I know that the leeks are needed for unlocks.
WestonSmith wrote:I'll gladly give a look over Worlds 7 and 8 and adjust difficulty if you'd like Swirls. I'll be giving the game a one over this weekend anyways.
That'd be great, thank you. Make it easier to just do 9-9 and 0-1 myself.
WestonSmith wrote:(1) In Normal Mode, we use Roulette, sending to the Credits. In the credits, the player would get a SMW leek, then be transported back to the HUB. Though I will say, a part of me would LOVE to try and make a super fancy credits sequence now that A2XT has raised the bar.
I think the credits are fine as they are, A2XT's credits kinda dragged on to me >.>
The only question I have is "does the 'plot' work for the leek to be given after the credits as opposed to actually being in the castle?" (like what I think Shemp was getting at above?) Or maybe it still 'works' to have Calleoca give Demo/Iris the leek at the end of the credits.
WestonSmith wrote:(3) Challenge Mode could have a fancy 9-9 with a leek, much like 8-5. If Swirls wants to make it, go for it. Otherwise I could make something work.
I can do this in a flash.
Doctor Shemp wrote:If we were to include a minus world, we could just make it function like a Doom secret level: you beat it then go to the next level as normal.

For example, if -1 was hidden in 2-3 (for example) then you could go 2-3 -> 2-4 (the normal way) or 2-3 -> -1 -> 2-4 (the minus world way).
I think this might work the best of the options? But rather than going to the very next level, perhaps instead you jump to an 'arbitrary' level so it's actually somewhat worth finding? Like, I put a spot in 1-2 for an easy entrance to the Minus World (as I keep saying :v ), and then once you beat 0-1 you jump ahead to somewhere like 3-3 or 5-2?
Doctor Shemp wrote:So, with all those changes and testing, how about October 27th as a release date?
I want to say that that seems like a pretty generous amount of time, but it's probably better to be safe than sorry.


One more thing possibly worth bringing up, Weston: I assume it's your call whether the green Spinies/Caterpillars in 6-1 and 7-4 should stay green, or change to red like the rest of the game... or something else.

...And I guess my gold palette idea for 9-8 won't be used? Oh well.

anonymousbl00dlust wrote:All the obstacles in my level can be beaten on the players first attempt without any 'future predicting'.
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Re: Superb Demo Sisters Enters Genesis

Post by Mabel »

I liked the gold pallette thing
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Doctor Shemp
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Re: Superb Demo Sisters Enters Genesis

Post by Doctor Shemp »

Mabel wrote:I liked the gold pallette thing
Seconded.

The leek in H8-4... I assumed Hard Mode essentially functioned story-wise (and I know I'm thinking way too deeply about this) as a retcon of Normal Mode. I suppose it doesn't really matter so long as a leek is given at some point.

For the normal mode I think either the leek should be given at the end of 8-4 or the leek should be given via cutscene after the credits. Either way is fine and keeps the story making sense. I think the credits should be left like they are though (i.e. short).

Personally I prefer Minus World acting as a bonus level rather than a shortcut. Although perhaps one way to do it would be with a cycling end of level warp that cycles between all the levels in that game mode rapidly. That way beating minus world could send you forwards or backwards by any distance, making it a truly random glitchy gamble. It would be favourable gamble too: if it's hidden in 2-2 then you have an 78% chance of being sent forwards in the game, a 2% chance of just going to 2-3, and a 20% chance of being sent backwards.
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Re: Superb Demo Sisters Enters Genesis

Post by WestonSmith »

I think golden pallette is neat-o.

If we're worried about the story in any shape or form, just set the leeks to SMW style and make an exit to credits appear. This would resolve the issue methinks.

I'm color blind, so I could have never told you the spinie colors were different. Whatever floats your boat works for me.

I'm cool with minus world being in 1-2. It sticks with the original, which much of this game does anyways.
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Re: Superb Demo Sisters Enters Genesis

Post by KingTwelveSixteen »

WestonSmith wrote:I'm color blind, so I could have never told you the spinie colors were different. Whatever floats your boat works for me.
I say make all the normal game ones green, and all the hard mode ones red.
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Re: Superb Demo Sisters Enters Genesis

Post by Doctor Shemp »

The spinies are red in the credits and in the manual. The easiest way to make it consistent would be to make them all red.

Alternatively do
KingTwelveSixteen wrote:
WestonSmith wrote:I'm color blind, so I could have never told you the spinie colors were different. Whatever floats your boat works for me.
I say make all the normal game ones green, and all the hard mode ones red.
but reversed, i.e. make the normal game ones red and the hard mode ones green. Green for go since they're faster.

But please don't make all the normal ones green because then I'd have to redo the credits.
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Re: Superb Demo Sisters Enters Genesis

Post by swirlybomb »

I think the best solution might be either making ALL spinies red (that is, change them in 6-4 and 7-1 in both normal and hard), or make the normal ones red and the hard ones green, like Shemp said. Though it's probably worth noting that the green ones are technically harder to see on the green terrain, so if that's going to be a 'fake difficulty' issue (being unable to see them all at a glance), then all-red is probably better.
[casual reminder that SMB3 = green and SMW = red]

Here's the gold palette for 9-8, in case you missed it.
Meanwhile, here's what I came up with for Minus World. Totally open to changes. Includes an altered H1-2 (which now has the actual entrance to 0-1 in it; remember to

slide under that firebar

!) and 9-9 (which is also open to changes if need be).

There are three 'paths' through it, which lead to three different levels on completion. I figured that'd be easier than making it a randomized warp, but I suppose if someone wants to put that in, be my guest.


Let me know what you think!
anonymousbl00dlust wrote:All the obstacles in my level can be beaten on the players first attempt without any 'future predicting'.
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Re: Superb Demo Sisters Enters Genesis

Post by Doctor Shemp »

Minus World & Palette Swaps

  • I assume the moonwalking furbas in the Minus World are intentional.
  • Minus World doesn't have LunaDLL text listing it as World -1 or whatever.
  • I can't figure out the way to get to Minus World in H1-2. Duck-sliding just takes me to the Warp Zone.
  • All of the palette-swapped Hard Mode doesn't have the LunaDLL text showing the level number.
  • The palette swap for Hard World 3 is really ugly. It's the combination of cyan & purple.
  • Hard Worlds 5 & 6 (I think) look like they hasn't been palette-swapped at all.
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Re: Superb Demo Sisters Enters Genesis

Post by Kil »

For the minus world lunadll marker, maybe it could be some garbage text or something other than the correct world marking
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Re: Superb Demo Sisters Enters Genesis

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I've been working on this a bit today. Linked the credits to the end of the main game and made some changes to 9-9. I've added the World -1 to Minus World, but I could switch it to junk text. Keep fixing little things I keep finding, in case you want to know why I'm not done yet. Should have everything good to go by the 25th, so we should be launched by the 27th. I can't say I found Hard Mode World 7 that bad, but I'll try and tone 7-1 down a bit just in case.

Did 9-3 get switched back to the original gimmick of sitting Polyps, just made easier? Or is the luna file just missing the swimming Blooper code? I was going to fix it before I realized that maybe it was intentional. On a similar note, oh sweet god do I find 9-8 difficult... but I love it.
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Re: Superb Demo Sisters Enters Genesis

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I played through a bit today to record for the trailer and I noticed that the bonus room in 1-1 has a furba instead of the Demo logo and 1-2 has the blocks that keep you attached to the flagpole visible until the event makes them disappear. At some point stuff must have gone missing from these asset folders and probably others. I'll try to look into it more when I get the time.
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Re: Superb Demo Sisters Enters Genesis

Post by WestonSmith »

...really? I tested it out today and it seemed to be working fine. I even recorded some footage from 1-1 in the bonus room and the correct graphic was there. Are you sure you got the correct files?
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Re: Superb Demo Sisters Enters Genesis

Post by Doctor Shemp »

I thought I had, but I reinstalled and its fine. I must have updated incorrectly.
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Re: Superb Demo Sisters Enters Genesis

Post by swirlybomb »

Doctor Shemp wrote:I assume the moonwalking furbas in the Minus World are intentional.
Yes.
Doctor Shemp wrote:I can't figure out the way to get to Minus World in H1-2. Duck-sliding just takes me to the Warp Zone.
Did you use the updated version of H1-2 that I included in that last download? It should have a space in the middle of the wall that you fall down in and are forced into a 'pipe', which yours, obviously, didn't (hope I uploaded the right file :I )

I didn't update the palette-swapped Hard Mode with the LunaDLL stage numbers, since Kil came up with it after I initially uploaded it; I just re-linked it in case it got overlooked (since the 9-8 gold palette also seemingly got overlooked the first time). It's easy enough to copy the files to the right places (either LunaDLL files into the palette-swap folders, or the palette-swap graphics into the regular folders). ...Yeah. Probably shouldn't be that concerned about the palette swaps anyway, I wasn't really expecting them to be used at this point.

Just for clarity's sake, this is what I had changed for all of the palette swaps:
World 1: normal palette
1-3: waterfalls background

World 2: green/'spring' foreground palette
2-1: spring hills bg

World 3: icy/light blue fg palette
3-1: red/pink night hills bg (I didn't notice beforehand that it was ugly and/or I just really wanted to use that background color :v )
3-2: starry sky w/ night hills bg
3-3: red/pink night hills bg

World 4: yellow-orange-brown/'autumn' fg palette
4-1: autumn hills bg (whether the little purple bit looks off or not, I'm pretty sure it's taken straight from SMB1)
4-2: brown underground fg

World 5: 'white' fg palette; however it's only really noticeable with the grass background objects, which blend in to the actual background because the backgrounds are white too >_> I would've make the solid orange blocks white as well, but I thought that'd make them too hard to see so I just left them orange (though maybe gray would've worked?)
5-2: clouds bg
5-3: waterfalls bg

World 6: night/dark blue fg palette
6-1: night mountains bg
6-3: night mountains bg, green+white mushroom platforms

World 7: normal fg palette, but 'sunset' backgrounds
7-1: sunset mountains bg
7-3: sunset seaside bg

World 8: red palette
8-1: spring mountains bg
8-2: autumn mountains bg

And none of the castles had palette swaps
While I'm at it, 0-1 is composed of:
First segment: pieces of 1-1, 2-1, 3-1, and 4-1, changed to water tiles
'Castle' segment: pieces of 1-4, 6-4, and 2-4, changed to overworld tiles
'Swimming' segment: pieces of 1-2, 4-2, and 6-2, changed to castle tiles
'Not-underwater' segment: part of SMB1's 2-2 (the same map used in the original Minus World, of course) and SDS's 2-2, changed to underground tiles
...in case anyone was curious.
WestonSmith wrote:Did 9-3 get switched back to the original gimmick of sitting Polyps, just made easier? Or is the luna file just missing the swimming Blooper code? I was going to fix it before I realized that maybe it was intentional. On a similar note, oh sweet god do I find 9-8 difficult... but I love it.
I don't know if you're using my version or a different version, but they should be 'swimming' via the LunaDLL code.

Just a random thought, maybe "DEMRIS 0-1" for the 0-1 text...? The idea being that it's taking text from a different part of the game (Demo and Iris' names, of course), but maybe it's a little 'tame' and pure garbage (or just World -1) might be better. I dunno.
anonymousbl00dlust wrote:All the obstacles in my level can be beaten on the players first attempt without any 'future predicting'.
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Re: Superb Demo Sisters Enters Genesis

Post by Doctor Shemp »

You did upload the correct files: my installation of them was just bad again. H1-2 works. I still think that one purple palette swap is an eyesore, but if I'm in the minority...

I've got a couple of suggestions for the Minus World text:
17 F 12 C 4 -1 (created by taking the number of each letter in the word "world" in the alphabet (e.g. a is 1, b is 2) and converting each to hexadecimal, then adding -1 to the end)

LUNADLL ERROR!
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Re: Superb Demo Sisters Enters Genesis

Post by swirlybomb »

Well, no one else commented on the teal foreground/pink background anyway, so I can't say you're in the minority (and that's if the palette swaps would even get used)...

Another off-hand 'World 0-1' idea that's slightly less plain than my previous one would be 'DIERMIOS'... same basic idea (Demo/Iris' names) but less bland I suppose. I think I like Shemp's ideas better though.


EDIT:
I'm almost wondering if my avatar plaque should instead read
Swirlybomb
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considering... well, everything. Not totally necessary, though.

Though while I'm at it, I noticed the avatar room didn't have any of the 'fixes' I had made a while back... Don't know if that was intentional (because you didn't approve of my changes) or not. (In particular, the 'symmetry' plaques seem unnecessary and/or the one next to Shemp still has inappropriate language... also Kil has a different quote than the one he originally gave, but this one may work better anyway?)
anonymousbl00dlust wrote:All the obstacles in my level can be beaten on the players first attempt without any 'future predicting'.
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