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Bugs, Testing, and Help (Oh My!)

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swirlybomb
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Re: Bugs, Testing, and Help (Oh My!)

Post by swirlybomb »

I think it works.
Kil wrote:Here's a thing. http://www.gamearchaeology.com/9-6.zip Maybe it's too easy. If your lunadll isn't working the level won't make any sense.
what the whaaaaaaaaAAAAAAAATTTTTT

THANKS KIL

NOW HOW AM I SUPPOSED TO FOLLOW THAT UP
Feel like I should point out that the SDS coins past the goal won't be seen/fully seen under normal circumstances; move them farther left perhaps? Besides that I would only suggest attempting to replace the blocks with more interesting-looking tiles and stuff, but it could be fine as it is, to draw more attention to the gimmick.
anonymousbl00dlust wrote:All the obstacles in my level can be beaten on the players first attempt without any 'future predicting'.
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Re: Bugs, Testing, and Help (Oh My!)

Post by WestonSmith »

9-6 is awesome technology.

I now feel ashamed of myself and demand that I step my game up.
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Re: Bugs, Testing, and Help (Oh My!)

Post by Kil »

Besides that I would only suggest attempting to replace the blocks with more interesting-looking tiles and stuff, but it could be fine as it is, to draw more attention to the gimmick.
Yeah I agree but I don't really know what to put there that's from the vanilla smb set.
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Re: Bugs, Testing, and Help (Oh My!)

Post by KingTwelveSixteen »

9-6 review
Ah, what?! What!
It moves!

:P

Pretty impressive there.

The level is pretty sweet, though there are some problems.
1. The winged goopa after the tall and long mushroom with all the coins on top flies off the bottom of the screen, potentially forcing a player death if they don't see it coming since they can't bounce on it anymore. It also despawns in a weird looking way.
2. The ending goopas are desynched with each other! It makes it really hard to get from the first two to the third and fourth ones without dying.
3. The powerups should all be cacti, so that if you hit the ? block as big Demo you get the ability to throw fire.

Other notes: Picking up and losing powerups is scary in this level! :shock: The screen keeps moving without you. :o
I liked the extra-life placement.
The really big chunk of regular looking blocks that you eventually have to jump into a hole on looks really weird. The start and end area also look kinda weird to me because of their blocks.
I liked how you had a like two-smash large area at the start for people to understand the gimmick at instead of just letting the smasher push them right off the level or something.
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Re: Bugs, Testing, and Help (Oh My!)

Post by Diggertron »

Continuing the trend of 5-3 updates.
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Re: Bugs, Testing, and Help (Oh My!)

Post by cheez8 »

ACK I FORGOT ABOUT THIS

Well, at least I got more criticism in the meantime...? I'll take it as a plus.
swirlybomb wrote:revisiting 8-3:
I actually feel like the castles are fine, though I'd probably still suggest using the 'castle walls' background anyway (it won't get used otherwise...!?). Really my only criticism would be "make it seem like less of a clone of the original level".
Can do! Mostly, I'm just glad I get to keep the castles around- I think they make for better decoration than trees and fences everywhere, at least for 8-3. Anyway, I'll do my best to change things up enough without straying too far from the theme... For starters, I guess I should deviate from the direct references a lot earlier. Even though there were only two or three direct references, in such a short level it really does end up being a bit too similar.NEVER MIND. Guess who just looked back through his level and checked for stuff that looked cloned? Yep. Looks like roughly half the features in the level feel like the original 8-3 and only two of the rest are potentially memorable in their own right. Thank you for helping me notice this.
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swirlybomb
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Re: Bugs, Testing, and Help (Oh My!)

Post by swirlybomb »

Kil wrote:
Besides that I would only suggest attempting to replace the blocks with more interesting-looking tiles and stuff, but it could be fine as it is, to draw more attention to the gimmick.
Yeah I agree but I don't really know what to put there that's from the vanilla smb set.
The beginning and ending platforms (that is, with the castles on them) could just as easily be mushroom platforms, I think, or other 'solid ground' terrain if it seems appropriate. The giant sets of blocks above... I mean, technically any sort of stuff (pipes, terrain, designs) could go in there, but at the same time I wonder if that sort of thing would be too visually distracting and make it harder to focus on the actual path (which you kinda need to do because of the gimmick). So the solid blocks may actually 'work' in that sense. If that makes sense at all.

I also forgot to mention that the powerups should be Fire Flowers, yeah. (sorry, I was too mesmerized I guess :v )
I didn't find any desyncing issues with the Paragoopas at the end. And I think that by the time the first Paragoopa K-12-16 mentioned despawns, the screen has already scrolled past him?

5-3's looking really nice! Just remember to turn the music back on the 'normal' way before submitting it :v (or it may not matter, I dunno) Also the flagpole doesn't have blocks to the above-right of it preventing jumping 'over' the flagpole (apologies for not noticing this before); but other than that, I'd say you're good to go :)
anonymousbl00dlust wrote:All the obstacles in my level can be beaten on the players first attempt without any 'future predicting'.
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Re: Bugs, Testing, and Help (Oh My!)

Post by Diggertron »

swirlybomb wrote: 5-3's looking really nice! Just remember to turn the music back on the 'normal' way before submitting it :v (or it may not matter, I dunno) Also the flagpole doesn't have blocks to the above-right of it preventing jumping 'over' the flagpole (apologies for not noticing this before); but other than that, I'd say you're good to go :)
Thanks :) Sorted that out, big oversight on my end too!

The thing with the music is, for some reason at some point, the normal way just decided to pack it's bags and not work, and for some reason was just replaying the level's music as well as the goal sound. After an hour of bashing my head trying to fix it I decided to go for this option it has basically the same effect.
That makes raocow a victim of proprietary software.
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Re: Bugs, Testing, and Help (Oh My!)

Post by cheez8 »

...So, I've gotten around to working on 7-4 (mostly I just found the "Clone section" function and became very happy that I could understand how to use it) and every time I try to clone to Section 15 I get a message saying "Run-time error 6: 'Overflow'."

What exactly would be causing this? I'd rather fix this if it's possible, even though it's not a huge problem (it would just give the player a few more chances before reaching an artificial "Time Up!") More than anything I'd just like to know what's going on in case it's unexpectedly dangerous, somehow.

Also, since I'm done messing around with it for now, here's another draft of 8-3. Hopefully it's still not way too hard or anything. I've noticed there's one small place now where the player can be trapped forever, but I'm pretty sure there's no possible way to get into that situation without making a conscious effort to do so.
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Re: Bugs, Testing, and Help (Oh My!)

Post by Mabel »

cheez8 wrote: Also, since I'm done messing around with it for now, here's another draft of 8-3. Hopefully it's still not way too hard or anything. I've noticed there's one small place now where the player can be trapped forever, but I'm pretty sure there's no possible way to get into that situation without making a conscious effort to do so.
8-3 looks good.
the ending flag doesnt exit is the only issue
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Re: Bugs, Testing, and Help (Oh My!)

Post by Compound Fraxure »

A wild revision of 4-2 appeared!
https://www.mediafire.com/?vn8a6ijthgvdsld
Fixed:
Added warps in places that were needed.
Moved the World 7 warp zone so that the glitch no longer happens. In fact, it's even harder to find now.
Added a slight hint to find the World 6 warp zone.
Removed the slopes.
Made the World 8 warp zone possible to access with big Demo.
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Re: Bugs, Testing, and Help (Oh My!)

Post by swirlybomb »

8-3 seems alright. Is the intended solution for getting past the first tall cannon "bullet jump from the left side of the screen onto the bricks above" or "bullet jump from underneath the bricks"? If it's the latter, I might suggest adding a shorter cannon below to aid in jumping over the cannon normally just because that kind of bullet-jump is annoying; but the former works regardless, so it's not necessarily necessary.

4-2 has a couple new issues;
After going through warp #10 (heading on the World 8 Warp path) and then going through one of the 'backward' pipes, the screen doesn't scroll back in section 4 so you fly through the walls and stuff and die in the pit. WestonSmith kinda detailed some 'autoscroll reset'-related method to make the screen probably go back in page 4 of this thread... I think? I don't quite follow the explanation myself, so you may want to ask him in detail.
Getting to that warp zone is now possible as big Demo, though I feel like still having a pit underneath to kill you if you don't turn around while ducking seems a tad unfair? I think it'd be better to get someone else's second opinion on that.

When entering warp #11 (heading to the World 7 Warp), the screen gradually scrolls back for a while before actually taking you to the next section for some reason.

I should point out that the invisible blocks that lead to the World 6 Warp, being 5 tiles off the ground, are a tad awkward to get onto (requiring jumping to the next platform and then back onto the block), but if that's intended, then I suppose it's fine.

Uh...... first draft of 9-7.
I was trying to do something 'unusual/unexpected', but I fear it's just plain way too long and possibly too easy? I could use some feedback on what could be removed to shorten it up, and so forth.
anonymousbl00dlust wrote:All the obstacles in my level can be beaten on the players first attempt without any 'future predicting'.
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Re: Bugs, Testing, and Help (Oh My!)

Post by Clamestarebla »

9-7:
Couple of suggestions
Maybe make the platform 2 blocks wide instead?
9-7 1.png
9-7 1.png (4.32 KiB) Viewed 6989 times
Same goes here
9-7 2.png
9-7 2.png (5.32 KiB) Viewed 6989 times
Don't make the blocks invisible and maybe remove the giant brick wall right next to it
9-7 3.png
9-7 3.png (10.67 KiB) Viewed 6989 times

Other than that it was a pretty amusing level. The coin bomb made me laugh and it wasn't too hard
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Re: Bugs, Testing, and Help (Oh My!)

Post by Doctor Shemp »

Redid 9-4 to reduce enemy spam in the second section.
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Re: Bugs, Testing, and Help (Oh My!)

Post by Compound Fraxure »

swirlybomb wrote: After going through warp #10 (heading on the World 8 Warp path) and then going through one of the 'backward' pipes, the screen doesn't scroll back in section 4 so you fly through the walls and stuff and die in the pit.
Dang it, I forgot to test that part. I'll have to try and fix that.
swirlybomb wrote:Getting to that warp zone is now possible as big Demo, though I feel like still having a pit underneath to kill you if you don't turn around while ducking seems a tad unfair?
Well, it's intended to be a hint to SMB:LL (http://youtu.be/2y4R7UbUJqA?t=2m). I'll change it to make it a tad easier.
swirlybomb wrote:When entering warp #11 (heading to the World 7 Warp), the screen gradually scrolls back for a while before actually taking you to the next section for some reason.
I made it so that unless you go toward the secret, the screen doesn't scroll, so as to make the secret more secret-y. I can change it if that breaks some rule.
swirlybomb wrote:I should point out that the invisible blocks that lead to the World 6 Warp, being 5 tiles off the ground, are a tad awkward to get onto (requiring jumping to the next platform and then back onto the block), but if that's intended, then I suppose it's fine.
Yeah, that's intended.
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Re: Bugs, Testing, and Help (Oh My!)

Post by swirlybomb »

Compound Fraxure wrote:Well, it's intended to be a hint to SMB:LL (http://youtu.be/2y4R7UbUJqA?t=2m). I'll change it to make it a tad easier.
whaaaaaattt I've never seen that area before...! I understand what you're going for, then.
Compound Fraxure wrote:
swirlybomb wrote:When entering warp #11 (heading to the World 7 Warp), the screen gradually scrolls back for a while before actually taking you to the next section for some reason.
I made it so that unless you go toward the secret, the screen doesn't scroll, so as to make the secret more secret-y. I can change it if that breaks some rule.
...Well, now that you tell me, it starts working as intended.
What happened to me the first time is that the screen scrolled 'normally' into the wall, but then when I reached the pipe at the end, scrolled backward to where the screen is meant to stop. I don't know why that happened, but I can see it working properly now, so... nevermind.
Doctor Shemp wrote:Redid 9-4 to reduce enemy spam in the second section.
Hope I didn't make you gut the difficulty or anything; I think it looks pretty good myself, though. My only suggestion would be to move the second jumping Paragoopa in the underground section; currently he hits the blocks and turns around, making him a non-threat (unless that's intended as a tiny gag or something).


Clemasterable wrote:Maybe make the platform 2 blocks wide instead?
That's adding content, not removing it!! :v
Can do, of course; I made them one-tile jumps because it's at the end of the ninth world, but... yeah.
Clemasterable wrote:Don't make the blocks invisible and maybe remove the giant brick wall right next to it
It's meant as an homage of sorts to Lost Levels; in 5-1 you have to hit invisible blocks to get over a wall, and in 8-2 you have to find a vine to escape a loop. I think I could provide a not-too-obvious hint at what the solution is if necessary, though.
anonymousbl00dlust wrote:All the obstacles in my level can be beaten on the players first attempt without any 'future predicting'.
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Re: Bugs, Testing, and Help (Oh My!)

Post by Mabel »

swirlybomb wrote: 8-4:
I think we're generally heading in the right direction! Sections 2 (firebar hallway), 4 (fire circle jumps), and 5 (Hammersnake obstacle course) are pretty great; section 3 (rising/falling platforms) doesn't have much to it, but I think it still works. Section 6 (Lakitu on the roof)... Lakitu throwing Hammersnakes? Seems like a bit much (and doesn't really line up with all other Lakitus throwing Spinies). It's kinda a lot of just the same thing (jumping Paragoopas), so perhaps shortening it or adding a different enemy type would improve it.

Section 7 (walls of bullets) is my least favorite by far; it's much more difficult than the rest and not in a way that feels 'fair', more like just being overwhelmed by bullets/enemy spam and not having convenient safe spots. The way the floating cannons gradually drift downward kind of imposes a 'time limit' for the safe spots as well. I'm not sure if I'm explaining any of this right, but I'm just not a fan (personal preference would be replacing it with either a different section with fewer bullets, or an underwater section- section 8 could still be used if you wanted to clean it up).
probably gonna remove a few more bullets if anything
In the interest of removing the midpoint/reducing the length so that the level doesn't need a midpoint, I'd like to suggest splitting the level into two sets of three pipes (instead of three sets of two), followed by the 3 Hammersnakes, and a shortened version of the final portion (say about half its length even). Based on general difficulty, I'd say sections 2 and 3 could go in the first split and sections 5 and 6 could go in the second; where section 4 would go would depend on what the sixth path is.
this could work.
If you want to really go the extra mile, I want to suggest making little miniature 'samples' of where each pipe leads to give the player an idea of what they're getting into before they make their choice. I made this little mock-up as a sample of what it could look like:

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(pipes leading to sections 2, 4, and 3)
this probably wont, would take the fun out of guessing :P
...I really apologize if I'm kinda 'building your level for you' with all the suggestions and stuff... just tossing out my ideas. Also, warp #3 leads to the player coming out of the side of the pipe rather than the center.

By the way: this is more of a 'behind the scenes' change, but you can really improve on block efficiency by using the SMB1 64x64 Castle Bricks / block-93 available in the resource kit (this is more my OCD talking, I don't think it would really affect how the game runs all that much :v ).
forgot to respond to this.
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Re: Bugs, Testing, and Help (Oh My!)

Post by cheez8 »

swirlybomb wrote:8-3 seems alright. Is the intended solution for getting past the first tall cannon "bullet jump from the left side of the screen onto the bricks above" or "bullet jump from underneath the bricks"? If it's the latter, I might suggest adding a shorter cannon below to aid in jumping over the cannon normally just because that kind of bullet-jump is annoying; but the former works regardless, so it's not necessarily necessary.
The former is the intended solution, either with a bullet jump or with a running jump. Both work, although if you scroll the screen far enough a running jump will be out of the question.

Also, I'm running into major problems in 7-4 where the swap mushrooms that are supposed to activate things upon death don't activate things upon death (that, or instant warps still function even if they're on a layer which has been hidden.) Any insight on what's going on or what I'm doing wrong would be fantastic, because until I fix this, 7-4 won't even be playable enough to be tested.
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Re: Bugs, Testing, and Help (Oh My!)

Post by WestonSmith »

Send me the level and I'll take a look at it. I'm curious since I'll be basing 4-4 on how you manage to get 7-4 to work.
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Re: Bugs, Testing, and Help (Oh My!)

Post by aterraformer »

0-1

It's kinda dumb but I don't know. The whole "I cannot get LunaDLL to work for no one knows reason" kinda bummed me out. I don't even know how well some sections would work out but if they are terrible, I shall change. Bad timing for something of this situation but that's what happens when I get bummed, I procrastinate.
raocow wrote:the plan is to wait for Jump to be released and then replacing the graphics without telling anyone involved with Jump.
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Re: Bugs, Testing, and Help (Oh My!)

Post by Leet »

1-2

i hope its good enough o///o
Well it is a decent hack but sometime its just too repetitif there no level that actually pop in your face and your like oh yeah that level they all ressemble themselves and just monster along the way.
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Re: Bugs, Testing, and Help (Oh My!)

Post by Mabel »

9-8
dunno if I was supposed to do anything special with this level other than"really hard"?
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Re: Bugs, Testing, and Help (Oh My!)

Post by Zygl »

Zyglrox Odyssey wrote:[Here, have a file that may or may not be the correct 9-2. I'm too lame to actually check if it is or not, you figure it out.]
UPDATE: It was indeed the right file, but as I expected I messed up a few things. Here's the fixed one.
Also I can now confirm it's definitely possible to get through it in any power-up state with either Demo or Iris.
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Re: Bugs, Testing, and Help (Oh My!)

Post by Clamestarebla »

aterraformer wrote:0-1

It's kinda dumb but I don't know. The whole "I cannot get LunaDLL to work for no one knows reason" kinda bummed me out. I don't even know how well some sections would work out but if they are terrible, I shall change. Bad timing for something of this situation but that's what happens when I get bummed, I procrastinate.
3 things;

1. No turn back is off

2. Wrong mushroom sprite

3. (Very minor) You can't beat the level
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