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A2MBXT Cutscenes and Story SPOILERS (no raocows allowed)

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Re: A2MBXT Cutscenes and Story SPOILERS (no raocows allowed)

Postby WasabiJellyfish » 1 year ago

docopoper wrote: Having a weak story also helped levels have creative freedom in Episode 1.
It also made the game feel unpolished though. Like you can still keep a bunch of random levels, as long as story at the beginning, maybe the middle, and the end of a world have some depth or weight to them.

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Re: A2MBXT Cutscenes and Story SPOILERS (no raocows allowed)

Postby docopoper » 1 year ago

I'm mostly concerned with avoiding development hell. I am in favour of a better story, but whatever we do it must bend to the requirement of finishing the game. Since A2XT was as much of a success as ASMT, I don't want this to go anywhere near where A2MT went. This game should not be an attempt to upstage episode 1.

Now, not to be too negative, the story can definitely be better quite easily. :P Though let's keep this a character driven plot since we have such interesting characters in the first place. I honestly don't know why the plan is to get rid of the siblings for episode 2 since they were really strong characters in episode 1 and everybody liked them quite a lot. (we can still add the uncles though)
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Re: A2MBXT Cutscenes and Story SPOILERS (no raocows allowed)

Postby Imaynotbehere4long » 1 year ago

docopoper wrote:I honestly don't know why the plan is to get rid of the siblings for episode 2 since they were really strong characters in episode 1 and everybody liked them quite a lot. (we can still add the uncles though)
I think it's more that the siblings, as seen in Episode 1, don't exist anymore after the collapse of that reality (but unlike Mishi erasing herself from existence, Demo & Co. still remember what happened). We can still have the siblings appear, but they will be from the alternate reality (with the exception of Pandamona and maybe Calleoca), and maybe even act a bit differently as a consequence.

I'm also thinking that the backstory for the alternate reality siblings could be that they all used to live happily together (except maybe alt. Pandamona), but then alternate reality Demo and Iris died, so when they see Analog Funk Demo and Iris, they're initially shocked until Kood explains that they're from an alternate reality. In fact, I'm thinking that Garish could be the first alt. reality sibling that is met just so Demo and Co. have a similar reaction, as Analog Funk Garish died in Episode 1.


...unless you're referring to getting rid of Pandamona before introducing the Uncles, in which case, yeah, I agree that that would be rather anticlimactic, especially given how Episode 1 ends. In fact, I'm thinking that we could have Pandamona use the mind control mentioned in Episode 1 on the Uncles to make them try to stop Demo and Co., and just like they did with the siblings, they have to fight the Uncles to free them from their mind control, at which point the Uncles join Demo and Co. to put a stop to Analog Funk Pandamona once and for all.

For a cliffhanger, we could have it to where, when Pandamona is defeated, it turns out Pandamona's base is where the Elders were sealed (and the only way to break the seal is by gathering all the sacred objects and bringing them there), and the Uncles (who have all the other sacred objects) turn on Demo and Co. by releasing the Elders, as they hope to use the Elders' power to rule the universe (of course). We could even say that their reality's Sacred Turtle Dove was killed or destroyed, so the only way to break the seal was by using the one given to Sheath in Episode 1. Alternately, the seal could be broken by accident by virtue of all the sacred objects being there and the Uncles are still good guys.

(I sure am doing a lot of thinking in this post)
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Re: A2MBXT Cutscenes and Story SPOILERS (no raocows allowed)

Postby Holy » 1 year ago

Eh, we gotta keep it simple. I think delving into the "lore" of the universe is a bad idea. The best cutscenes from episode 1 were the ones where stuff happened, in the present, without any long expository dialogue or history. I mean, the eow6 infodump cutscene seemed necessary and it did flesh out the characters, but I feel like stuff like that might be better left to some npcs in towns or whatever.

If we start to lay down the story now and add in a lot of complicated lore elements and track everyone's position and allegiance before we even know what themes the worlds are, it's gonna come out looking tacked on and weird, even weirder than it did in episode 1. I think the levels come first. They're the meat of the game, and the story bends to fit them. Once those are in order, we mold the story to them. The only things that really matter right now are:

1. pandamona's pretty evil
2. the uncles are in this game
3. the siblings are too, but it's a different universe so no one remembers anything except sheath

seriously though, how cool would it be if the story actually had reasons for taking place on certain planets/levels. Like the theme of the world ties in to the motivations of the characters. Which is why we should wait

p.s. it's impossible to do this vice-versa because if you commission levels to be made to fit the story it will take literally one million years

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Re: A2MBXT Cutscenes and Story SPOILERS (no raocows allowed)

Postby WestonSmith » 1 year ago

Holy wrote:Eh, we gotta keep it simple. I think delving into the "lore" of the universe is a bad idea. The best cutscenes from episode 1 were the ones where stuff happened, in the present, without any long expository dialogue or history. I mean, the eow6 infodump cutscene seemed necessary and it did flesh out the characters, but I feel like stuff like that might be better left to some npcs in towns or whatever.

If we start to lay down the story now and add in a lot of complicated lore elements and track everyone's position and allegiance before we even know what themes the worlds are, it's gonna come out looking tacked on and weird, even weirder than it did in episode 1. I think the levels come first. They're the meat of the game, and the story bends to fit them. Once those are in order, we mold the story to them. The only things that really matter right now are:

1. pandamona's pretty evil
2. the uncles are in this game
3. the siblings are too, but it's a different universe so no one remembers anything except sheath

seriously though, how cool would it be if the story actually had reasons for taking place on certain planets/levels. Like the theme of the world ties in to the motivations of the characters. Which is why we should wait

p.s. it's impossible to do this vice-versa because if you commission levels to be made to fit the story it will take literally one million years
Quoting in support. Connect the dots later (figuratively and literally), and for the love of god, keep the plot simple (there are already way too characters and macguffins as is).

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Re: A2MBXT Cutscenes and Story SPOILERS (no raocows allowed)

Postby raocow » 1 year ago

NOTE: I HAVE NEVER READ THIS THREAD, AND I WILL NOT RETURN TO THIS THREAD AFTER MAKING THIS POST

but I just figured out the plot of the next game to save y'all some trouble

a2xt2 is in another reality that wasn't all wrecked. The whole extended family is having a picnic and after lunch everyone decides to do hide n' seek contest :D The sibblings vs the uncles, with the latter going way to hide. Some of the sibbligns are more competitive and go to seek them out on their own, but Demo and Iris (and possibly others?!) know it's a good idea to team up, because adults tend to justify cheating with 'it builds characters' or 'ah you just don't like having fun'.
post a2xt1 sheath arrives and is dismayed when she sees that science is there, as she was dang sure Science was defeated just moments ago D: She teams up with the other protagonists she recognises (she figured they just got better) and assume everyone is on a science hunt.

In the ending, by finding (and defeating) all the uncles demo wins the prize of their impromtu contest, the last remaining chicken wing.

HAPPY END

SO THERE YOU GO NO NEED TO THANK ME, I GOT EVERYONE SORTED OUT
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Re: A2MBXT Cutscenes and Story SPOILERS (no raocows allowed)

Postby Rockythechao » 1 year ago

And then at the last minute it turns out the chicken wing was actually

Papi Earthquake!

Sequel hook!

...actually, now that I think about it I really want to see that happen. Right up there with

Pal is actually the Artist in disguise

.

edit:
Rockythechao wrote: I don't see the harm in brainstorming as long as we don't go too in-depth and get attached to any given idea.
Jeez, rocky, you've probably said this like, what, three times now? Follow your own advice once in a while...

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Re: A2MBXT Cutscenes and Story SPOILERS (no raocows allowed)

Postby Imaynotbehere4long » 1 year ago

Holy wrote:3. the siblings are too, but it's a different universe so no one remembers anything except sheath
I'll go ahead and say one thing: if The Post Production Void gets accepted, the rest of the main characters will remember what happened, too, since at the end of the level, Sheath takes them with her when she leaves the reality.
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Re: A2MBXT Cutscenes and Story SPOILERS (no raocows allowed)

Postby WasabiJellyfish » 1 year ago

Holy wrote:Eh, we gotta keep it simple. I think delving into the "lore" of the universe is a bad idea. The best cutscenes from episode 1 were the ones where stuff happened, in the present, without any long expository dialogue or history. I mean, the eow6 infodump cutscene seemed necessary and it did flesh out the characters, but I feel like stuff like that might be better left to some npcs in towns or whatever.

seriously though, how cool would it be if the story actually had reasons for taking place on certain planets/levels. Like the theme of the world ties in to the motivations of the characters. Which is why we should wait

p.s. it's impossible to do this vice-versa because if you commission levels to be made to fit the story it will take literally one million years
I was thinking about this, and you could even have the reason be as simple as "Trounce the Uncles". Having the Uncles all set up for some big attack and you go to each of the planets to stop them (Rewind making technology, Broadsword trying to find an ancient artifact)

But yeah I do agree with waiting HOWEVER I think that Start of World, End of World and sometimes Middle of World levels should NOT be made and finalized before the story is done, we need levels with actual story impact for those times.

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Re: A2MBXT Cutscenes and Story SPOILERS (no raocows allowed)

Postby Hoeloe » 1 year ago

So there was a discussion on the A2XT Skype group yesterday where I proposed a story idea that people seemed to like.

Starting off, there has been the suggestion that setting all the worlds on the same planet, but at different periods in time, would be cool.

Taking that as an idea, I proposed this:

After the end of episode 1, all the messing about with the fabric of the universe has left everything very unstable, and in a state where the universe is basically falling apart at the seams. A race of people called Chronotons (who are the inhabitants of the planet in Episode 2) are Guardians of Time (see Terry Pratchett's History Monks for the kind of thing). They offer to build a machine that will repair the damage to the universe, but would require Super Leeks to operate. The Chronotons set about building this machine, while Demo and co search for the leeks. Every time they collect a Super Leek, the Chronoton's machine (probably called R.E.T.C.O.N or something) will repair a small part of the universe, manifesting as a random time leap (i.e. the boundary between worlds). Portals in the towns (such as the ones in Demos Journey Through Time) would act as ways to return to previous worlds. Each time the universe is repaired, though, it also reverts some of the things that occurred in Episode 1, allowing Garish and Mishi to make a return. The end game would be the Chronotons versus the Uncles using the completed machine to totally stabilise the universe. This means that the whole "time loop" story would be finished in this episode. A lot of people are getting sick of the time loop idea, and it would be good to branch out in future episodes rather than just "rehash Episode 1 again!".

Also, the "weird world" would occur due to one of the Uncles (possibly Rewind) tampering with the machine, and causing the reparation to go a bit strange. The goal of that would would be to help repair the machine, rather than just collect another Super Leek.

I was planning to include the Chronotons in world 3's town anyway (with links to Demo's Journey Through Time), but if time travel is going to be a theme of the story, it seems sensible to make them part of it.

A lot of people on the Skype discussion seemed to like this idea, and it offers a not-too-complex way of creating a plot that won't interfere with the levels too much, and can help to fill in the plot holes from Episode 1, allowing Episodes 2 and 3 to be a little cleaner.

For a short summary:
Some guys turn up and offer to build a machine to Fix the Problem in exchange for Super Leeks to power it. Machine does time travel to fix things and brings back Mishi and Garish in the process, and the Uncles oppose it.
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Re: A2MBXT Cutscenes and Story SPOILERS (no raocows allowed)

Postby docopoper » 1 year ago

I'm not a fan of the idea of the Chronotons because we're already introducing way too many characters. Even adding the uncles in this episode is pushing it. Just think of the number of characters Mario has.
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Re: A2MBXT Cutscenes and Story SPOILERS (no raocows allowed)

Postby Hoeloe » 1 year ago

docopoper wrote:I'm not a fan of the idea of the Chronotons because we're already introducing way too many characters. Even adding the uncles in this episode is pushing it. Just think of the number of characters Mario has.
Well, they are as much characters as toads are in the Mario series. Not so much characters, more just things that exist.
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Re: A2MBXT Cutscenes and Story SPOILERS (no raocows allowed)

Postby Pikabread » 1 year ago

here's an idea for an opening world cutscene: The DK rap, but as the Demo Krew rap.

here is the version I worked on with a couple of friends

could easily work for weirdo world, possibly?

e: fixed and proofread version
Last edited by Pikabread on 14 Nov 2015, 15:08, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: A2MBXT Cutscenes and Story SPOILERS (no raocows allowed)

Postby docopoper » 1 year ago

Hoeloe wrote:Well, they are as much characters as toads are in the Mario series. Not so much characters, more just things that exist.
Can't we just make it Uncle Rewind's plan? We could make it so that the uncles were manipulating everyone in episode 1 with Operation Retcon or something.

Also I like raocow's idea, we need to integrate that into the plot somehow.
The first thing I would do with infinite power would be to make myself a cave where I could look at my shadow forever.

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Re: A2MBXT Cutscenes and Story SPOILERS (no raocows allowed)

Postby SAJewers » 1 year ago

Pikabread wrote:here's an idea for an opening world cutscene: The DK rap, but as the Demo Krew rap.

here is the version I worked on with a couple of friends

could easily work for weirdo world, possibly?
no.
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Re: A2MBXT Cutscenes and Story SPOILERS (no raocows allowed)

Postby Hoeloe » 1 year ago

docopoper wrote:
Hoeloe wrote:Well, they are as much characters as toads are in the Mario series. Not so much characters, more just things that exist.
Can't we just make it Uncle Rewind's plan? We could make it so that the uncles were manipulating everyone in episode 1 with Operation Retcon or something.

Also I like raocow's idea, we need to integrate that into the plot somehow.
The reason I suggested the Chronotons was that I was planning to include them in the world 3 town anyway (as a sort of extra thing relating to Demo's Journey Through Time), and I still plan to do this. When people started bringing up time travel as a central plot theme, it seems weird to have a totally unrelated set of things that follow the same themes as the main plot, but have literally nothing to do with it. It seemed like a good way to fix some of the plot holes without leaving that weird disconnect.
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Re: A2MBXT Cutscenes and Story SPOILERS (no raocows allowed)

Postby WasabiJellyfish » 1 year ago

SAJewers wrote: no.
SA please, we tried ever so hard.
Why oh why will you not let us have this one pleasure in life?
Isn't dumb talkhaus collaboration what this whole game is all about?
Not about brother against brother, but as bringing us together as a family.
Truly with this awful rap we can achieve greatness in life.
To be remembered for eons as the ones who walked where others dare not tread.

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Re: A2MBXT Cutscenes and Story SPOILERS (no raocows allowed)

Postby Pikabread » 1 year ago

it at least is pretty rude to just shoot it down immediately without any deliberation or comments/criticism other than "no"
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Re: A2MBXT Cutscenes and Story SPOILERS (no raocows allowed)

Postby Rockythechao » 1 year ago

Make the Demo Krew Rap the end credits theme

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Re: A2MBXT Cutscenes and Story SPOILERS (no raocows allowed)

Postby Mabel » 1 year ago

hide it in a level somewhere as an easter egg
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Re: A2MBXT Cutscenes and Story SPOILERS (no raocows allowed)

Postby Rockythechao » 1 year ago

Well, I posted this in the skype group so I should probably post it here as well.



Long story short, supermario128/superbdemo128 cheat + some Lua stuff = why didn't I think of this sooner

Not trying to push the cutscene's content, just sharing the tech. The dialogue/scenario/etc. seen here will most likely be changed to better fit whatever direction we end up taking the story.

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Re: A2MBXT Cutscenes and Story SPOILERS (no raocows allowed)

Postby Hoeloe » 1 year ago

Rockythechao wrote:Well, I posted this in the skype group so I should probably post it here as well.



Long story short, supermario128/superbdemo128 cheat + some Lua stuff = why didn't I think of this sooner

Not trying to push the cutscene's content, just sharing the tech. The dialogue/scenario/etc. seen here will most likely be changed to better fit whatever direction we end up taking the story.
Wow that was some... really old meme music.

Also yay this is a great addition to cinematx
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Re: A2MBXT Cutscenes and Story SPOILERS (no raocows allowed)

Postby Imaynotbehere4long » 1 year ago

Hoeloe wrote:time travel as a central plot theme
Aww, we're still going with that? The whole reason I made The Post Production Void was to steer the plot away from time travel shenanigans by having Sheath bring everyone to a different reality (and, by extension, a different universe) entirely. That would also explain how Garish and Mishi return: they're their alternate reality counterparts, not the same ones from Analog Funk.
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Re: A2MBXT Cutscenes and Story SPOILERS (no raocows allowed)

Postby Hoeloe » 1 year ago

Imaynotbehere4long wrote:
Hoeloe wrote:time travel as a central plot theme
Aww, we're still going with that? The whole reason I made The Post Production Void was to steer the plot away from time travel shenanigans by having Sheath bring everyone to a different reality (and, by extension, a different universe) entirely. That would also explain how Garish and Mishi return: they're their alternate reality counterparts, not the same ones from Analog Funk.
No, I mean it was a relatively new thing. The suggestion was to set the entire game on one planet over different time periods, which a lot of people thought was cool. The idea of this plot was to wrap up the whole "time loop" story so we don't have to continue with the same thing yet again in episode 3.
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Re: A2MBXT Cutscenes and Story SPOILERS (no raocows allowed)

Postby WasabiJellyfish » 1 year ago

Okay guys I think Pumpernickle should really be the leader of the Uncles for a couple of reasons.

1) The fact he's the only nonbipedal ABCD is something that could be had a lot of fun with, like that he's actually not an ABCD at all or that he's resentful of everyone else that their classifications actually describe them. You could also make him an AQCD and that he wants to destroy order in the universe so his classifier isn't out of order cause it really annoys him.
Like I don't really mind what I just think that him not being bipedal can give him a lot of options.

2) He looks like a final boss/super rad villain dude, he's huge, he could speak slowly and deeply, his eye is a gemstone rather than everyone else's normal eye (again making him different)

3) This one is more just against Broadsword being the leader but what we could do is have Broadsword have a redemption moment where he realises what the Uncles are doing and decides to help demo, maybe with a scene where he holds them off as their base is exploding or a fractured universe is imploding or something like that. You could even play as him in a climactic battle against him and the remaining Uncle. Because he does seem to genuinely like Demo and Broadsword is a pretty rad dude it'd be nice to see him come back and be a good guy in the end.


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