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Super ASPE Mario - All Stars Puberty Edition

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Re: Super ASPE Mario - All Stars Pseudolatry Edition

Postby FPzero » 1 week ago

The thing I've always disliked about many Japanese hacks is the asm they use to make the camera always move with Mario. It feels really awkward to me when it doesn't move as a result of jumping to a higher platform but instead as a result of just moving Mario high enough. In this level, that change is deadly since even a normal jump that doesn't progress you anywhere will constantly move the camera upwards, moving that death pit closer and closer.

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Re: Super ASPE Mario - All Stars Pseudolatry Edition

Postby Voltgloss » 1 week ago

Mulling it over, I think the most insidious problem with this exit isn't the fog, but the ratchet scrolling. It's the ratchet scrolling that makes every slight mistake equal death and having to do the entire thing over again. If a slight mistake meant falling *part* of the way back, but not having to start *completely* over, the exit would I think become significantly more tolerable without losing the levelmaker's apparently intended "realistically climbing a mountain" effect.

I'm not saying that would be *enough* to make it work, but it's the single biggest change I think this needed.

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Re: Super ASPE Mario - All Stars Pseudolatry Edition

Postby hanayamata » 1 week ago

Summit of the Gods by 660

I don't know the reasoning behind the secret exit, I don't think it was ever mentioned. It was intended to be very difficult for sure, but some people found this much more difficult than others, some didn't seem to have much trouble at all. The secret exit is entirely optional though, if that counts for anything.



I recommend taking the top path after all of this, it's a bit of a breather in comparison. It's all.. downhill from here, for a while at least.

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Re: Super ASPE Mario - All Stars Pseudolatry Edition

Postby Super Maks 64 » 1 week ago

I'm going to be different and talk about the previous level.
Koopas kicking shells to hit On/Off blocks is something that works better than just timed blocks if the shells are visible and also the fact that Shellless Koopas were able to despawn so easily doesn't help. Enemies that throw a milion small fireballs that can pass through walls rarely work in a Mario hack (remember SMWCP?).
Also that desynced ExAnimation (it isn't hard to just use slots 0,8,10 and 18).

So this level.

Since I would be repeating everyone by pointing its flaws I'm gonna say that this level should've also had:
-a generator
-a seizure palette ExAnimation on the fog
-an UberASM that reverses your controls every five seconds
-Actually screw everything else and just make everything invisible so it isn't possible without Tools
7.8/100 Too many bad decisions
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Re: Super ASPE Mario - All Stars Pseudolatry Edition

Postby jayScribble » 1 week ago

Super Maks 64 wrote: Since I would be repeating everyone by pointing its flaws I'm gonna say that this level should've also had:
-a generator
-a seizure palette ExAnimation on the fog
-an UberASM that reverses your controls every five seconds
-Actually screw everything else and just make everything invisible so it isn't possible without Tools
7.8/100 Too many bad decisions
Still not enough bad things to add to this part of the level. You forgot:
  • Autoscroll
  • Powerup Filters
  • Yoku/Disappearing-Reappearing Blocks
  • Fishing Boo/Fishing Fish Guy
  • Boo Cloud
  • Boo Ceiling
  • Munchers
In all honesty, even two of the four gimmicks (Non-reverse scrolling, Icey floor, Wind, and the Fog) would be too much to handle.
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Re: Super ASPE Mario - All Stars Pseudolatry Edition

Postby S.N.N. » 1 week ago

jayScribble wrote: Still not enough bad things to add to this part of the level. You forgot:
  • Autoscroll
  • Powerup Filters
  • Yoku/Disappearing-Reappearing Blocks
  • Fishing Boo/Fishing Fish Guy
  • Boo Cloud
  • Boo Ceiling
  • Munchers
In all honesty, even two of the four gimmicks (Non-reverse scrolling, Icey floor, Wind, and the Fog) would be too much to handle.
Frankly, I'm surprised nobody has made a "bad hack level BINGO card" and thrown these + the gimmicks in 2-3 on it just to see how long it takes us to find the ultimate terrible level and land a full card.
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Re: Super ASPE Mario - All Stars Propine Edition

Postby SAJewers » 1 week ago

Someone made a Bingo card for terrible video game tropes. Probably won't be hard to Fork the source code for a Bad Hacks Bingo card.
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Re: Super ASPE Mario - All Stars Propine Edition

Postby morsel/morceau » 1 week ago

I just noticed the guy who made yesterday's well-received mountain climbing simulator was 660, the vip sprites, &c. graphics man. We have so much to thank him for. And I assume to-day's first level was made by SIG, since you can find several variants of the level among his 33 hacks.
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Re: Super ASPE Mario - All Stars Propine Edition

Postby Voltgloss » 1 week ago

morsel/morceau wrote: I just noticed the guy who made yesterday's well-received mountain climbing simulator was 660, the vip sprites, &c. graphics man. We have so much to thank him for.
Yesterday's secret exit does not and should not diminish those accomplishments.
Nor should those accomplishments redeem or excuse yesterday's secret exit.

I'm seeing a pattern in this hack of diminished visibility gimmicks and powerup starvation.

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Re: Super ASPE Mario - All Stars Propine Edition

Postby hanayamata » 1 week ago

Switching Factory by SIG

This was the first stage that was finished for ASPE. It held the blue (I think) switch originally, but was later changed to the red switch.



The Great Christmas Mission!? by Rage

The platform up to the right had a moon.


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Re: Super ASPE Mario - All Stars Pillar Edition

Postby Ryrir » 6 days ago

... and that marks three of the "four annoying exits" done.

I agree with what raocow said at the end of the video 100%. Why the hell is there no midpoint? Yes, the level has a couple of other questionable design choices, but each of them would be so much more tolerable if you didn't have to restart from the very beginning every single time you die. It's just so annoying for no real reason, and it's such a shame too because the gimmick is actually super neat.

The level is a lot more tolerable if you just bring capes though, so there's that

The good news is that the rest of world two and the entirety of world three is a lore more enjoyable. Sure, there are some iffy spots here and there, but nothing nearly as bad as what we've seen in the last couple of videos. If everything goes well I'm pretty sure we'll see a comeback of happycow for the next while
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Re: Super ASPE Mario - All Stars Pillar Edition

Postby Zephyr_DragonLord » 6 days ago

raocow had every right to complain; that second level was pretty flawed. His summary at the end of the video put it best, and I simply cannot improve on it.

The other level was good.
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Re: Super ASPE Mario - All Stars Pillar Edition

Postby Super Maks 64 » 6 days ago

The Yoshi's Island's switch graphics are a VIP tradition and it was nice to see them in ASPE too (too bad the cement blocks are vanilla).

The switch level was neat with the blocks that set the state of the blocks and not toggle, although the light in the second part is questionable for me. The location of the switch isn't the most obvious thing when playing it for the first time I think.

The second level had some keysitting and two phantos that don't care about keys, and yeah it was kind of there.

It feels like someone forgot to change the mask files for the cloud blocks in THE SKY, also hey Lakitu. The music is rather unfitting.

raocow said everything I wanted to say about the second level in the video. One tile blind jumps and surprises plus no midpoint don't make the best experience.

Third switch aleady, huh. I expected that every world would have a switch and that the last one would have one very early.
BTW can Horikawa translate THE SKY into english, I didn't get what raocow said in the video about that level's name.
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Re: Super ASPE Mario - All Stars Pillar Edition

Postby hanayamata » 6 days ago

THE SKY by sui

The aim was just a simple sky level it seems, I think it would have done better in world 1, though.



I Bought New Support Beams! by naari

We suggested adding a midpoint but in the end the author didn't seem to agree. That miscolored block at the beginning was intended too I think, but serves no purpose. The other weird block next to the koopa was a block with multiple 1-ups.


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Re: Super ASPE Mario - All Stars Pillar Edition

Postby zagesaw » 6 days ago

of course the author didn't agree of adding a midpoint because MUH DIFFICULTY. World 2 has been a disaster so far with the unbalanced difficulty cruve. Why is Summit of the Gods and I Bought New Support Beams! in the same world as The Sky? It's a shame because there are some really nice levels in this hack but they are placed alongside levels where the author just takes things way too far. I thought 2-1 and SIG's level were both enjoyable.

I really hope raocow won't have to spend at least an hour on every level from here on out.

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Re: Super ASPE Mario - All Stars Pillar Edition

Postby Ryrir » 6 days ago

hanayamata wrote:

We suggested adding a midpoint but in the end the author didn't seem to agree.

That's really too bad, but there's nothing you could have done if that was the case. There were a few similar issues like that in JUMP, where a couple of people suggested changes, but you can't go against the explicit will of the author.

I feel like in the end the level still makes its point, the gimmick is very interesting and it's not like the entire level is completely irredeemable, there are some cool setups there as well.

It could have been so much better though

zagesaw wrote: ofc the author didn't agree of adding a midpoint because MUH DIFFICULTY. World 2 has been a disaster so far. Do they seriously have no concept of difficulty balance? Why is Summit of the Gods and I Bought New Support Beams! in the same world as The Sky? It's a shame because there are some really nice levels in this hack but they are placed alongside levels where the author just takes things way too far. I thought 2-1 and SIG's level were both enjoyable.

I disagree with this pretty strongly. If you only sort levels by difficulty you just end up with a completely unreasonable endgame with one long, hyper difficult level after another. By spreading them around the entire hack you give the player the ability to breathe, and they won't be burnt out as quickly

A lot of people have been questioning the difficulty curve of this hack, but I can't agree.
ASPE doesn't have a traditional difficulty curve that starts easy and gets gradually harder, but instead opts for a generally hard level of difficulty with a few easier and harder levels mixed in between. It's not what people are used to, but if you have a lot of very hard levels in your game it actually makes a lot of sense to do it that way. Putting them all at the end of the hack is not a good solution

I enjoy this type of difficulty balancing and in my opinion the ordering of the levels is actually one of the hack's strong points.

Calling the entirety of world two a "disaster" is also pretty hyperbolic. We have seen nine exits so far, out of which three were questionable.
I agree that that's not ideal, but it's not disastrous either
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Re: Super ASPE Mario - All Stars Pillar Edition

Postby Grounder » 6 days ago

Ryrir wrote:
I disagree with this pretty strongly. If you only sort levels by difficulty you just end up with a completely unreasonable endgame with one long, hyper difficult level after another. By spreading them around the entire hack you give the player the ability to breathe, and they won't be burnt out as quickly

A lot of people have been questioning the difficulty curve of this hack, but I can't agree.
ASPE doesn't have a traditional difficulty curve that starts easy and gets gradually harder, but instead opts for a generally hard level of difficulty with a few easier and harder levels mixed in between. It's not what people are used to, but if you have a lot of very hard levels in your game it actually makes a lot of sense to do it that way. Putting them all at the end of the hack is not a good solution

I enjoy this type of difficulty balancing and in my opinion the ordering of the levels is actually one of the hack's strong points.

Calling the entirety of world two a "disaster" is also pretty hyperbolic. We have seen nine exits so far, out of which three were questionable.
I agree that that's not ideal, but it's not disastrous either
What you're getting here isn't that, though, what you're getting is a difficulty roller-coaster akin to the worst bits of JUMP.

It's one thing to have breather levels in a hard game, but that doesn't even seem to be what they tried to do here.
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Re: Super ASPE Mario - All Stars Pillar Edition

Postby Ryrir » 6 days ago

Grounder wrote: What you're getting here isn't that, though, what you're getting is a difficulty roller-coaster akin to the worst bits of JUMP.

It's one thing to have breather levels in a hard game, but that doesn't even seem to be what they tried to do here.
I think my point will become clearer once we've actually seen the entire hack.

There are not a lot of levels like "THE SKY" in the game. The vast majority (something like approximately 75% of all levels) are just plain hard, and then you have a couple of ridiculous levels like Summit of the Gods as well.

If you'd order all these levels in a traditional difficulty curve, you'd get about half a world's worth of easy levels, then an enormous jump in difficulty, and maybe five super ridiculous, rage-inducing levels at the very end.
That's not a very well balanced difficulty curve either, is it?
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Re: Super ASPE Mario - All Stars Pillar Edition

Postby Grounder » 6 days ago

Ryrir wrote:
Grounder wrote: What you're getting here isn't that, though, what you're getting is a difficulty roller-coaster akin to the worst bits of JUMP.

It's one thing to have breather levels in a hard game, but that doesn't even seem to be what they tried to do here.
I think my point will become clearer once we've actually seen the entire hack.

There are not a lot of levels like "THE SKY" in the game. The vast majority (something like approximately 75% of all levels) are just plain hard, and then you have a couple of ridiculous levels like Summit of the Gods as well.

If you'd order all these levels in a traditional difficulty curve, you'd get about half a world's worth of easy levels, then an enormous jump in difficulty, and maybe five super ridiculous, rage-inducing levels at the very end.
That's not a very well balanced difficulty curve either, is it?
No, I suppose not.

If it turns out you are right, then so it shall be.

For the moment, however, I remain a bit skeptical.
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Re: Super ASPE Mario - All Stars Pillar Edition

Postby QubicTom » 5 days ago

The only thing that the "Support Beam" level needed was some ice physics and it would have been perfect :lol:

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Re: Super ASPE Mario - All Stars Pillar Edition

Postby The Doctor » 5 days ago

Ryrir wrote: If you'd order all these levels in a traditional difficulty curve, you'd get about half a world's worth of easy levels, then an enormous jump in difficulty, and maybe five super ridiculous, rage-inducing levels at the very end.
That's not a very well balanced difficulty curve either, is it?

The ideal difficulty curve is a game that gets steadily harder as it goes on, but has breather levels to give the player a rest in between the rage-inducing levels. I'd say those five super ridiculous, rage-inducing levels should be spread out in the second half of the game (none in the first two worlds) with some easier (relatively speaking) levels in between them. The problem is that world 2 -- the early game I remind you -- put three extremely hard levels back to back to back. Sorry, but I just can't agree with you that this is good design. Here's a cool graph I found online that I think shows the perfect difficulty curve.

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Re: Super ASPE Mario - All Stars Pillar Edition

Postby ft029 » 5 days ago

QubicTom wrote: The only thing that the "Support Beam" level needed was some ice physics and it would have been perfect :lol:
And fog.

And left wind.
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Re: Super ASPE Mario - All Stars Pillar Edition

Postby Blue » 5 days ago

ft029 wrote: And left wind.
You lack imagination. Wind that changes direction after a random amount of time between 3 and 7 seconds.

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Re: Super ASPE Mario - All Stars Pillar Edition

Postby Sebby19 » 5 days ago

Ryrir wrote:
hanayamata wrote:

We suggested adding a midpoint but in the end the author didn't seem to agree.

That's really too bad, but there's nothing you could have done if that was the case. There were a few similar issues like that in JUMP, where a couple of people suggested changes, but you can't go against the explicit will of the author.
Sure there's a way to deal with that. Threaten to not include the level at all! If the author is being stubborn like that.
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Re: Super ASPE Mario - All Stars Pillar Edition

Postby MoneyMan » 5 days ago

Sebby19 wrote:
Ryrir wrote:
hanayamata wrote:

We suggested adding a midpoint but in the end the author didn't seem to agree.

That's really too bad, but there's nothing you could have done if that was the case. There were a few similar issues like that in JUMP, where a couple of people suggested changes, but you can't go against the explicit will of the author.
Sure there's a way to deal with that. Threaten to not include the level at all! If the author is being stubborn like that.
Or just be upfront at the start and say that the project heads hold permission to edit your levels for quality of life reasons


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