Let's Play JUMP! A talkhaus non-ASMT Mario Romhack - Ep79c FINAL - Won 1F8

[raocow]

I guess that explains why update rates slowed down!

[QubicTom]

I guess that explains why update rates slowed down!

I am sorry about that! The next two weeks might not have that many videos due to some super important exams. But, there will be an A2MT video today and some more DnD stuff this weekend :D

[QubicTom]

I'm afraid my return to video-ing has no progress! I won't give up, though. A2MT is up next, really hope that goes better, haha!
Ep65b - Lava Loathing

[QubicTom]

Nevermind, I beat the level :D
Ep65c - Gawky Gap

[ft029]

well done o.o

Think Fast!

[QubicTom]

World 7 is pretty good - Lava Gap gave a false impression of what to expect!
Ep66a - Flippantly Fast

[ft029]

There is exactly one jolpe level per world, so he'll leave you alone for a while.

[Sugar]

Think Fast [v1.04] - Alien vs. Predator (SNES) - Space Port
Burnt Mountain Tango - Super Mario 3D World - Fort Fire Bros.

Looking forward to hardest and longest part of Burnt Mountain Tango.

That said, don't make that mislead you about World 7 difficulty, pretty much two/three hard levels left. It's not World 6.

I think the only difference in Think Fast v1.04 is music, so no reason to play it again.

[QubicTom]

Think Fast [v1.04] - Alien vs. Predator (SNES) - Space Port
Burnt Mountain Tango - Super Mario 3D World - Fort Fire Bros.

Looking forward to hardest and longest part of Burnt Mountain Tango.

Well, here you go! Edited down from about three hours of attempts over several recording session :D
Ep66b - Badly Burnt

[Sugar]

I vote for a level made by Daizo...

just kidding, voting for Industrial level, but both options are on the easy side, so whatever. (if you ignore Special-5)

[morsel/morceau]

I have been looking forward to Depraved Stronghold for ages (you need to wipe raocow's eye for him by beating this level).

Alternatively, I vote that that you stop playing Bowser's Castle in minute portions and do the entire thing properly [N.B., to properly experience a multiple choice level you must choose a different route every time you die and finish another drink].

[nathanisbored]

Alternatively, I vote that that you stop playing Bowser's Castle in minute portions and do the entire thing properly [N.B., to properly experience a multiple choice level you must choose a different route every time you die and finish another drink].

He will still

have that opportunity in Shattered Dreams.

The problem with choosing a new room each time is that he has the added pressure to show everything off, so getting the cleanup out of the way first means that he can go back and do the level from start to finish without worrying about which rooms he hasn't shown off yet, and then he'll have practice at each one which would make the choice more interesting anyway.

[QubicTom]

I have been looking forward to Depraved Stronghold for ages (you need to wipe raocow's eye for him by beating this level).

Alternatively, I vote that that you stop playing Bowser's Castle in minute portions and do the entire thing properly [N.B., to properly experience a multiple choice level you must choose a different route every time you die and finish another drink].

You may have been the first person to actually vote for Depraved Stronghold! Keep voting for it, one day you'll win and then I'll be playing it for 20 videos in a row

But the winner today was Bowser's Castle, Rooms 2 and C.
Ep67 - Castle Clamber

The one benefit about doing Bowser's Castle this way is that the video with the boss battle shouldn't need a part a, b, c, etc. And playing the level for several sessions in a row could make it annoying!

[nathanisbored]

cross posted from yt

Okay, let's look at it this way. There are 3 options:

1) Do cleanup after finishing the level (like raocow did)
- makes the cleanup feel anti-climactic and pointless (kinda kills the mood after the victory of the level)
- makes it so that you only choose the easiest/least intimidating rooms on the first pass, and simply grind those, rather than trying any new rooms (when you're just trying to get through, you want to stick with what works)
- doesnt let you learn/practice the rooms beforehand, and THEN choose which one you'd rather do on the full run

2) Do cleanup during the main pass through the level.
- overwhelming, the whole thing would be split in several videos anyway (making it anti-climactic again)
- getting burnt out, getting distracted by doors and not sticking with one room long enough to get a good feel for it
- makes it easier for dealing with midpoints

3) Do cleanup beforehand (what tom is doing)
- can learn each room before final run, so that you can decide which room is best based on actual experience with it vs just deciding "this room seems easier" and stubbornly sticking with it (when it might be harder in reality)
- deals with the weird 2/C combo early (C can only be reached through room 2, which is the only exclusive combo like that). If he had chosen room 2 and then B, he would have had to redo room 2 again later to show room C.
- gives more stuff to vote for, more viewer interactivity, and a buffer in between regular levels for a change of pace/difficulty and so that there's not like 6+ Bowser's Castle videos in a row

That all being said, I do agree that he should maybe start from the beginning again once he's done all the rooms, to sorta give him the opportunity to do it all in one go (that way everyone's happy and you still get the finale/climactic feel to the level.

ALSO, he's seen the other architect list, so he knows there's another collab level. So there will be another opportunity for him to do this again. Although when he gets there, there aren't really gonna be any other levels to choose from left, so he wouldn't really get to do cleanup beforehand. Doing a bunch of videos of Bowser's Castle in a row, and then a bunch of videos of another collab level in a row would just get tiresome and the LP would probably suffer. Besides, there's not really any reason to think of Bowser's Castle as "the finale" when there's post-game stuff which is just as climactic if not more.

[morsel/morceau]

My point about Bowser's Castle was that it is more fun if you refrain from choosing. I must have played hundreds of romhacks over tens of years (sad to say, this is literally true), and I have come to think that picking the best room, i.e. the one you can beat with least trouble, is no fun at all. If you force yourself to play uncomfortable levels, it introduces an element of actual tension into the experience; and if you end up winning through the easy path in any case -- so be it, at least you played fair with yourself and the level. But I simply wanted to express this opinion, and this was not an attempt to change the logistics of Tom's let's play.

[nathanisbored]

My point about Bowser's Castle was that it is more fun if you refrain from choosing. I must have played hundreds of romhacks over tens of years (sad to say, this is literally true), and I have come to think that picking the best room, i.e. the one you can beat with least trouble, is no fun at all. If you force yourself to play uncomfortable levels, it introduces an element of actual tension into the experience; and if you end up winning through the easy path in any case -- so be it, at least you played fair with yourself and the level. But I simply wanted to express this opinion, and this was not an attempt to change the logistics of Tom's let's play.

I guess i just worry about passing up rooms under the pretense that theyre way too hard or daunting, when in reality they would have left him feeling better about the rooms by giving them a fair chance. It's sorta a feeling of like, i want every room to not leave a bad first impression simply because of their context in the larger picture of the whole run through the level. Like stumbling into a room thats 'hard to do on first pass but gradually gets easier' after just barely scraping through another room will leave you feeling like the room isnt worth your time, and you'll probably feel disenchanted by it because it 'killed your run', so to speak. I guess I'm just saying how you approach the level affects how you feel about the rooms in the end, which doesn't really seem fair to the authors. And maybe that's really what i'm worried about even though ive been dancing around it.

[QubicTom]

If you force yourself to play uncomfortable levels, it introduces an element of actual tension into the experience.

I guess I'm just saying how you approach the level affects how you feel about the rooms in the end, which doesn't really seem fair to the authors. And maybe that's really what i'm worried about even though ive been dancing around it.

Bowser's Castle won today's vote, but I've decided on a compromise - I've deleted the midpoint, and next time I visit the castle it will be to beat Bowser. I'll start with room 3, which is still blind, but the first pair of rooms will otherwise be fine. The tension will still be there for the last pair of rooms and the boss fight. I'll tidy up the remaining rooms after Bowser. So, it's half piecemeal :D

I chose to make some progress today
Ep68 - Industrial Ire

Also, as a bonus video, I tried out raocow's What The Hell Jr. level, which he made for JUMP-1/2 but then retracted due to ridiculous difficulty :)
What The Hell Jr - Ep1?

[morsel/morceau]

The bonus room could have been set up more gratefully in the lava rush level, but aside from that I really like how it treats the dragon coins as a extra challenge rather than just loose change to be gathered up as you progress normally though a level. The general way the dragon coins are treated seems the most unsatisfactory aspect of the hack to me (of course, I take a share of the blame).

I will never understand why someone as good at playing these hacks as raocow is -- never abusing tools, giving the level a fair shot, responding generously to its ideas and giving sensible feedback -- will continue to make levels relying on fortunate factors (those he seems -- completely justifiably -- to get most annoyed about). Fitting into the 2-tile gap, the direction that wiggler moves or that which the flame hops -- all of these can be 'tough luck!' run-killers, and the level is not short enough for them not to matter.

[raocow]

so fun fact about What the Hell Jr - it really was more of a test to see what I could get away with, and regretted it immediatly. As in, even just as I opened up Lunar Magic something in me was like 'no, don't do this, nothing will come of this'.

Basically, the yellow room is a section from What the Hell but flipped horizontally, and the green section is from What the Hell 2, but flipped vertically.

Like obviously the result is terrible but I was like 'what if it works very well through some kind of magic ?!?!'

spoiler: it didn't

so yeah I'm working on a real level 111 this week.

[Sugar]

Industrial Interior - Fortress 2 Blue - Culture Shock
Rock Climbing Rush (main) - Goldeneye 007 - Silo
Rock Climbing Rush (bonus) - Donkey Kong Country 2: Diddy's Kong-Quest - Token Tango
Rock Climbing Rush (bonus game loss) - ??? (could possibly be custom made specifically for this level, Daizo can compose music, so...)

Industrial Interior has an easter egg. If you fall down the first pit (at beginning), and touch the right wall, you will teleport to a secret room.

Rock Climbing Rush feels a lot like Donkey Kong Country 2/3 level. It has its own gimmick which is based on Toxic Tower (Donkey Kong Country 2) or Ripsaw Rage (Donkey Kong Country 3). Donkey Kong Country games had lots of gimmicks, especially third one (in a way, similar to JUMP, I suppose).

Also, it has a bonus room that works just like Donkey Kong Country 2/3 (although DKC2/3 levels have more than one bonus room, just saying). An intro is a lot like Donkey Kong Country 2 bonus game intro screen too. It doesn't have time limit (unlike bonus games in Donkey Kong Country 2/3), but due to its gimmick, it doesn't really need one (lava serves as one).

What I find weird in Rock Climbing Rush is that after you end bonus game, you are in area after bonus game (so you cannot reenter bonus game). Most bonus games in Donkey Kong Country 2/3 did lead you to a place where you could retry the bonus game if you wanted, although there are exceptions such as last bonus game in "Stampede Sprint" due to auto-running (that level gimmick was actually used in "Back to the Future!", I think Daizo loves Donkey Kong Country games :)).

[QubicTom]

The bonus room could have been set up more gratefully in the lava rush level, but aside from that I really like how it treats the dragon coins as a extra challenge rather than just loose change to be gathered up as you progress normally though a level. The general way the dragon coins are treated seems the most unsatisfactory aspect of the hack to me (of course, I take a share of the blame).

Since the dragon coins are meaningful, having them in a bonus area was very nice, although I do wish the player could just retry the challenge. In what way do you not like dragon coins are treated in this game? I really like the dragon coin saving system. Due to the difficulty of the game (at least for me) I'd never be able to get the dragon coins in most levels if it wasn't for that system.

Industrial Interior has an easter egg. If you fall down the first pit (at beginning), and touch the right wall, you will teleport to a secret room.

Ah, I'll check that out next time I'm recording! Thank you for the music links. I'm totally unfamiliar with the Donkey Kong games, so the bonus room reference was completely lost on me!

so fun fact about What the Hell Jr - it really was more of a test to see what I could get away with, and regretted it immediatly. As in, even just as I opened up Lunar Magic something in me was like 'no, don't do this, nothing will come of this'.

Basically, the yellow room is a section from What the Hell but flipped horizontally, and the green section is from What the Hell 2, but flipped vertically.

That's fascinating! And it does actually kinda work. Although I know about What The Hell, I haven't watched a Let's Play of it yet (I intend to watch Iso's run when I get the time). I have another two hours of attempts at your level recorded. I made it past the mushroom block twice but both times I died mysteriously there (like, Mario died with no enemies in sight). Don't know if it's worth uploading a "death reel" video. Should I keep trying to beat the yellow section or leave it?
Also tried playing ft029's version of your level, but he made it too easy. Still died a lot, but because it was easier I got frustrated and gave up after a few tries

Today's video! No editing required by some miracle
Ep69 - Yggdrasil Yobbery

[morsel/morceau]

In what way do you not like dragon coins are treated in this game?

It is often that case that collecting the coins is almost equivalent to playing the level normally (perhaps because the level was made before the individual saving feature was added and the author didn't care to change it -- my own level Shouldering On, for example). This is not as satisfying to me as 100%-ing a game such as DKC2, which has a similar partial saving of the collectables but has it such that every one of them requires extra effort, be it exploration or tricky platforming.

[Sugar]

So, Yggdrasil... probably the easiest level of World 7, but whatever.

You know, there was a point where it was the hardest level in the game.




The current version is loosely based on that one, but much much much easier. Traps don't kill (just reset the room) and so on.

[nathanisbored]

So since it was brought up here, I also tried What the Hell Jr, and I didn't find it as bad as people made it out to be. The only problem with it was that a couple things were literally impossible/unplayable because of camera settings in the level, but after fixing those, I did a full playthrough and it didn't take me that long (only a little more than 2 hours). Certainly less time than most of the morsel levels in JUMP took me.
if you care, here's my playthrough

blind impression: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HgmNnstsfTI
full playthrough: https://www.twitch.tv/nathanisbored/v/102832078
I thought about posting these in the thread but I didn't bother editing them for ease of viewing so I didn't

The bonus room could have been set up more gratefully in the lava rush level, but aside from that I really like how it treats the dragon coins as a extra challenge rather than just loose change to be gathered up as you progress normally though a level. The general way the dragon coins are treated seems the most unsatisfactory aspect of the hack to me (of course, I take a share of the blame).

I actually disagree about this because, at least in most hacks, I don't like it when Dragon Coins are treated as their own set of challenges. In the original game, they were usually just loose change spread through the level. The challenge came from having to get them all in one go without dying (except some levels had maybe one DC that was out of the way or hidden).

Even then, they only give you a 1-up if you get them all, which means they are only worth 1/5 of a life, or 20 coins. Actually less than 20 coins, because at least coins stay with you when you die and transfer between levels. Now in this hack, they are obviously worth more than just 20 coins, but afaik that stuff was added after the authors had designed their levels for the most part (as was the DC saving system), so there's no reason to have expected the levels to be designed with it in mind. I guess my point is I prefer when levels don't have extra tacked-on sections of the level just for Dragon Coins, because then it just feels like an excuse to add more to the level that you gotta do without making the level technically longer. Same goes with extra midpoints actually.

[QubicTom]

So since it was brought up here, I also tried What the Hell Jr
here's my playthrough
blind impression: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HgmNnstsfTI
full playthrough: https://www.twitch.tv/nathanisbored/v/102832078

Everybody, go watch these :D I only watched 90% of the first one, since I'm still trying to beat the Yellow room blind. Keep dying at the same part for no reason. As is, I don't see what hurts Mario to cause his death..!

This is not as satisfying to me as 100%-ing a game such as DKC2, which has a similar partial saving of the collectables but has it such that every one of them requires extra effort, be it exploration or tricky platforming.

I think in a collab the motivation is different - the aim might be to impress others with a good level that stands out. Dragon coins are often used for flavour, I think. Challenging dragon coins might have to be encouraged next time. I can imagine a single author hack with unique dragon coin challenges, though.

So, Yggdrasil... probably the easiest level of World 7, but whatever.

So far I definitely agree! I might not watch the video you posted just yet, since I was told that a hack called "JUMP Beta" might be made with all the original or rejected levels, including the extra hard versions of levels that had to be toned down. I'd want to play that blind :D

Today's episode! Quite a short one. So far, everyone is voting for Depraved Stronghold. But I want to make more progress!
Ep70 - Solus Skulliloquy