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FINAL TESTING INITIATED - v1.02 ready for testing

it came, it went! all the old ASMT stuff is here
Alex-R
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Re: FINAL TESTING INITIATED - v1.02 ready for testing

Post by Alex-R »

To be honest I don't think every level should reset your powerups, mostly because then levels would be even more disconnected with each other, and if that's the case we could just have made a bunch of one-level hacks.

Maybe it's just me though.
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raocow
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Re: FINAL TESTING INITIATED - v1.02 ready for testing

Post by raocow »

It just makes it annoying to create any kind of puzzle - or even platforming section - when it's so easy to just get stuff from other levels. It's easier to regulate when you're designing the whole game, but in such a game it just takes someone putting a cape right at the start of their level and OOPS look at that half the game is not meaningless.

And I'd rather just make powerups not transfer between level then put restrictions on what people want to do in their OWN levels.
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Alex-R
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Re: FINAL TESTING INITIATED - v1.02 ready for testing

Post by Alex-R »

That's exactly why you would put power up restrictions in your own level, and not force everyone to use them. If you are so careless to forget about putting those sprites in there, or don't design your level with these kinds of powerups in mind, then shame on you?

I'm just worried that this would ruin the "flow" of the hack, and to me it's really important.
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raocow
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Re: FINAL TESTING INITIATED - v1.02 ready for testing

Post by raocow »

Because stuff like the above happens and it gets circumvented.

Also it just bothers me to see good levels broken in that way. It just feels so lame :(
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Alex-R
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Re: FINAL TESTING INITIATED - v1.02 ready for testing

Post by Alex-R »

If I recall correctly that was just a communication error, (meaning YCZ were the one to put in those sprites but he either wasn't told or forgot).

Besides, if the player deliberately breaks a level, he/she would be missing out, and what's the point of playing a game if you aren't going to play it?

And if you're talking about that TAS guy that broke half of ASMT with the cape, yeah, TASers tend to do things like that.
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raocow
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Re: FINAL TESTING INITIATED - v1.02 ready for testing

Post by raocow »

I suppose it's part of my effort to force people to appreciate levels.

I want to keep people from breaking levels because they are doing a disservice to themselves. Not really TASers, but normal people who become over-reliant on capes and whatnot.

We,re just both fundamentaly disagreeing here, and I don't think neither of us is ever goign to convince the other.
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flameofdoubt
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Re: FINAL TESTING INITIATED - v1.02 ready for testing

Post by flameofdoubt »

It's very difficult to engineer puzzles so that they're powerup-proof, If anyone makes a puzzle level and is more careful than me then they'll either put in a powerup and itembox remover sprite in, and ruin the flow, or have a filtration system which is often more annoying, and does exactly the same thing. Either way any puzzle levels are going to break the flow, and even people who make other kinds of levels, they probably won't want someone coming in with two capes and removing any real challenge from their carefully laid out level.
My point is that since pretty much every single level designer is, for one reason or another, going to want to take away anything the player has before letting them into their level, it makes sense to do this as the standard, in case anyone foolishly forgets like me, or just overlooks it.

As a big metroid fan I love the idea of sequence breaking and messing with the game and so on, but I think it's a little different in mario. Breaking mario is much easier than breaking metroid, and only affects the current level rather than the whole rest of the game, so rather than adding an extra dimension of play and challenge it just gives an easy route that anyone who knows it will always take (putting aside the people who conscientiously don't because they want to play each level rather than just getting through the game).

In other words I'm for having you restart as small mario and no item box at the start of every level; in ASMT we made it so you couldn't carry yoshis between levels, and as far as I know this didn't do anything to break the flow of a game which already had pretty disjointed levels what with being a collab hack.
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Alex-R
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Re: FINAL TESTING INITIATED - v1.02 ready for testing

Post by Alex-R »

raocow wrote:We,re just both fundamentaly disagreeing here, and I don't think neither of us is ever goign to convince the other.
That's why there's a thing called "compromising". Having opinions from both ends of the spectrum, and then settle for something in the middle will hopefully make most people at least somewhat happy, at least if none of the sides are underrepresented.
flameofdoubt wrote:...pretty much every single level designer is, for one reason or another, going to want to take away anything the player has before letting them into their level
This is a baseless statement, we'll just have to wait and see.

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flameofdoubt wrote:...it just gives an easy route that anyone who knows it will always take (putting aside the people who conscientiously don't because they want to play each level rather than just getting through the game).
Alex-R wrote:Besides, if the player deliberately breaks a level, he/she would be missing out, and what's the point of playing a game if you aren't going to play it?
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flameofdoubt wrote:In other words I'm for having you restart as small mario and no item box at the start of every level; in ASMT we made it so you couldn't carry yoshis between levels, and as far as I know this didn't do anything to break the flow of a game which already had pretty disjointed levels what with being a collab hack.
It's just that I'm afraid that if we made the levels further disjointed we would go over the line.
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Re: FINAL TESTING INITIATED - v1.02 ready for testing

Post by yoshicookiezeus »

Since discussion seems to have drifted away from the original topic, and what with the hack actually having been released for a while now, I think it is time to archive the last surviving ASMT thread. If anyone finds anything completely gamebreaking that necessitates an update, just send me a PM.
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